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How is it true "Jesus is God"?

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
It is the exact same word for god at John 20:28 as at John 10:34 except that at John 10:34 it is inflected as plural.

The presence of a definite article does not always have to mean it is the Almighty God who is being referred to, for if the lessor god is present and being spoken to the definite article would be needed to show that the one speaking to that lessor god was addressing that one as the lessor god rather than just speaking generally of a lessor god.

There is therefore no conclusive way of being sure that Doubting Thomas was even thinking of the Almighty God when he made his declaration.

2 Corinthians 4:4 proves that there is no conclusive way of being sure in that it is the same exact word for god as at John 20:28 and is preceded by the definite article just as is John 20:28.

2 Corinthians 4:4 “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”

What Doubting Thomas more precisely had said was, “the lord of me and the god of me.”

The kings over Israel were often referred to as gods appointed over the people. But Jesus was especially an appointed god as the prophet who was promised like unto Moses. (Acts 3:22, 26)

Exodus 7:1 “And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.”

Having for many years now considered all of the arguments, I say that is the best evidence for what Doubting Thomas meant.

Did Jesus manifest the Father to us? Yes, but it was the Father he manifested and therefore the explanation that says Doubting Thomas meant Jesus was the Father falls short. Only the father is the God, as in the One True God.

To manifest merely means, “to make known.” Jesus manifested many things to us, all of which helped us to know the Father better. Do a word search in the New Testament of that word, “manifest”, and ponder this point.
 

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
I am about ready to toss Microsoft to the wind and buy a Mac. Microsoft's stuff is junk any more, for all the aggravation that it causes.

Don't coward away from me. I want to hear your responses.
 

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
Exodus 7:1 “And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.”

The state of the captivity of the people had reached that comparable to their captivity to Egypt once again. The people were skinned and tossed about like sheep without a shepherd and the time for their deliverance had once again arrived. Jesus was the promised prophet like unto Moses of whom God said he would be a god to those he sought to free God's people from. And so Jesus performed miracles in their sight as did Moses in the sight of Pharaoh.

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

That which happened to the nation of Israel was but a prophet picture for what would take place on a world-wide scale in our day. We are now in a third and final fulfillment of this and all the players will act just the same.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Think of the name "God" as a family name like Jones. God is a family like Jones is a family. In the God family there is a father and a son and if you believe in a trinity, a holy spirit. So it is really Father God, Jesus God, and Holy Spirit God. All are part of the family so all are God just like everyone is the Jones family is Jones. Jesus is God because He is part of the family but Jesus is not the same as the Father.
 

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
Think of the name "God" as a family name like Jones. God is a family like Jones is a family. In the God family there is a father and a son and if you believe in a trinity, a holy spirit. So it is really Father God, Jesus God, and Holy Spirit God. All are part of the family so all are God just like everyone is the Jones family is Jones. Jesus is God because He is part of the family but Jesus is not the same as the Father.

Yes, that is innocently acceptable to see it that way if in the process we do not hide the purpose and the lessons Christ taught. Unfortunately that too has all too often happened.

It is not whether we understand exactly Jesus' identity or even the Father's identity that saves us. What saves us is our faith in the words of righteousness he bore to us. And that faith would be as James said, dead apart from the proof in our conduct that we obey the words of righteousness.

John 6:68 "Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life."
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Jesus is not Yahweh. He is the "son of God". Not God the son. He is also the son of David. The son of God and the son of man.


Not at all. Elohim is God manifest in a multitude. It also means "mighty ones". Like we said before, in most cases in the bible, Elohim is the angels. God manifested in angels. Too many verses to mention, but lots of times in our "English" bibles where it says "angels", when you look it up in Hebrew, it is Elohim.

I believe you have provid no proof of this false statement.

I have never seen anything that suggests this so I believe it is an imputation.

I don't believe there is any evidence to support this. Again it appears to be an imputation.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Yes, that is innocently acceptable to see it that way if in the process we do not hide the purpose and the lessons Christ taught. Unfortunately that too has all too often happened.

It is not whether we understand exactly Jesus' identity or even the Father's identity that saves us. What saves us is our faith in the words of righteousness he bore to us. And that faith would be as James said, dead apart from the proof in our conduct that we obey the words of righteousness.

John 6:68 "Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life."

I beleive the words alone will not save and that only Jesus saves but the words can lead us to Jesus.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
I believe you have provid no proof of this false statement.

I have never seen anything that suggests this so I believe it is an imputation.

I don't believe there is any evidence to support this. Again it appears to be an imputation.
What part do you not understand. Jesus is not God or Elohim being angels or man.... I can prove both.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
I believe you have provid no proof of this false statement.

I have never seen anything that suggests this so I believe it is an imputation.

I don't believe there is any evidence to support this. Again it appears to be an imputation.
This is just one of many verses that tell us that angels are also called "Elohim". Psalms 8, Jesus was made lower than the angels. In Hebrew, it reads, Jesus was made lower than the Elohim.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
This is just one of many verses that tell us that angels are also called "Elohim". Psalms 8, Jesus was made lower than the angels. In Hebrew, it reads, Jesus was made lower than the Elohim.

I beleive the New Testament was not written in Hebrew.

I believe the word Elohim does not mean that God was manifested in angels any more than the fact that Baptists and Methodists are Christians means that Baptists are Methodists.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
I beleive the New Testament was not written in Hebrew.

I believe the word Elohim does not mean that God was manifested in angels any more than the fact that Baptists and Methodists are Christians means that Baptists are Methodists.
Well, I also do not believe that it was written in Hebrew. But Elohim is a Hebrew word. And it is more than just the angels. One of the verses in Psalms that I gave did refer Elohim to the angels. Elohim was also the Judges too. Priests also. Because they were the ones who brought the word of God to the people.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Well, I also do not believe that it was written in Hebrew. But Elohim is a Hebrew word. And it is more than just the angels. One of the verses in Psalms that I gave did refer Elohim to the angels. Elohim was also the Judges too. Priests also. Because they were the ones who brought the word of God to the people.

Does that mean you agree that the word incorporates a lot of things and that not all of them are gods?
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Does that mean you agree that the word incorporates a lot of things and that not all of them are gods?
Well, none of them are "gods". There is only one God, YAHWEH. But "gods" in a sense that "God" is Elohim, EL or Eloah in the Hebrew bible. It is God manifest in beings, whether it is angels, Judges, Priests, anyone He wants. Elohim, God manifest in a multitude, "Mighty Ones".
 
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