How is it true "Jesus is God"?

[outhouse]

What don't you get about the Book you are claiming knowledge about?

Many things remain unknown.

Many things will always remain unknown.

People can spend a life time just studying Paul and not know everything about him.

Its why we study to learn as much as we can. Things the bible will, nor cannot teach you.

 

[Robert.Evans]

What has happened to this thread? No one yet has explained how they ignore the three points I made with scripture. No one yet has mentioned that God in the OT says he creates evil.
Any takers?

 

[savagewind]

What has happened to this thread? No one yet has explained how they ignore the three points I made with scripture. No one yet has mentioned that God in the OT says he creates evil.
Any takers?

No one? Oh brother!

 

[Robert.Evans]

No one? Oh brother!

Care to have a go, or would you like me to explain, or is it old ground again?

The forum is quiet tonight it seems.

 

[savagewind]

Care to have a go, or would you like me to explain, or is it old ground again?

The forum is quiet tonight it seems.

I have posted extensively on all of them. So it is OK. I have a theory. I am not telling you it.

 

[savagewind]

My theory I once posted on another forum and those people there who read it ganged up on me to murder me so I decided I would not risk it again.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Reason. People believe Jesus is God from what they have read. Other people believe Jesus is not God from what they have read from the same book.

I believe Y'shua Ha'Mashiach is not God because I am not able to reason a person can be human and God together. That is me explaining it without scripture. I understand God's son is our view of The Holy God and I trust God's son can be in the likeness of God but not BE God. If he is God he is not man. He is man reflecting the likeness of God. I won't argue the trinity because looking at him is also knowing The Father and the Holy Spirit. But he isn't The Father and The Holy Spirit. Actually I am with the class who assumes God IS The Holy Spirit.

Very interesting.

*Y'shua said only God should receive our worship. Yet Y'shua did not stop Thomas from kneeling unto Him and declaring "My Lord and my God!" (My Adonai and my Elohim!)

*I can give you about 80 other Bible reasons for believing Y'Shua is G_d, but that isn't what you asked. May I give you one warning? Y'shua said, unless you believe that I AM He, you will perish. I have a lot of trouble with my Mormon, Jehovah's Witnesses and other friends who not only deny Y'shua's godhood but destroy themselves and others with their scripture-twisting and cultic behaviors. (Sorry if I offended anyone but I calls 'em like I sees 'em.)

Let me ask you, SavageWind. Is anything too difficult for G_d? He made black holes where light cannot escape. He sends His light to men where they cannot hide. Jeremiah worshipped Him when He said, "Nothing is too difficult for me!" How hard could it be, really, for G_d to be in a man. Y'shua showed forth his godhead in so many ways, so many times. Rabbis love the Socratic method and answering student questions with questions. They asked the question, "WHO is this MAN who forgives sin?" because only One can forgive sin.

 

[savagewind]

Very interesting.

*Y'shua said only God should receive our worship. Yet Y'shua did not stop Thomas from kneeling unto Him and declaring "My Lord and my God!" (My Adonai and my Elohim!)

*I can give you about 80 other Bible reasons for believing Y'Shua is G_d, but that isn't what you asked. May I give you one warning? Y'shua said, unless you believe that I AM He, you will perish. I have a lot of trouble with my Mormon, Jehovah's Witnesses and other friends who not only deny Y'shua's godhood but destroy themselves and others with their scripture-twisting and cultic behaviors. (Sorry if I offended anyone but I calls 'em like I sees 'em.)

Let me ask you, SavageWind. Is anything too difficult for G_d? He made black holes where light cannot escape. He sends His light to men where they cannot hide. Jeremiah worshipped Him when He said, "Nothing is too difficult for me!" How hard could it be, really, for G_d to be in a man. Y'shua showed forth his godhead in so many ways, so many times. Rabbis love the Socratic method and answering student questions with questions. They asked the question, "WHO is this MAN who forgives sin?" because only One can forgive sin.

You do not know what Y'shua did or didn't do. I know everything he did could not be written in books to fill a world. Did you read that one?

 

[Muffled]

The word isn't "besides", it's "beside"... Small visual difference, but that last "S" makes all the difference in the world. Basically, God is saying there is no savior on the same level as himself ("beside"). Doesn't necessarily follow that there is no other savior. If anything, the passage you have given contradicts the theory that Jesus and God are one and the same.

I believe they are one but not the same. Jesus is God in the flesh and God is God everywhere.

I believe I see no contradiction. Jesus saves exactly the way God saves.

 

[Muffled]

The Muslim religion is correct when they disagree with our worshiping Jesus. Jesus didn't even want us to worship him, and yet we do it anyway.

i beleive in worshipping God wherever He is. If muslims don't believe in that, they have a problem.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Since I see this thread still rolling two years later, I thought I'd add something:

God is a personified title meaning love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.(Fruits of the spirit). It also defines perfection, all knowing, all powerful, and all present. It is not an entity or being.

The Father (In Christian terms) is the Creator. He possesses rather than is the fruits of the spirit. He created the world through his fruits and humans in the love He has for all. He is seen as a parent for these characteristics. He is a entity or being.

Jesus Christ is the Father's Son. In the New Testament, He also displays the fruits of the spirit as well. He not only has the fruits as the Father, because of His fruits (in particular, perfection), He is the human personification of His Father. (Like Father like Son). They are both one in their fruits (nature). That's what the scripture says that the Father and Son are One.

Since both the Father and Jesus share the same nature as God (as explained above), they are both God. The key note that make them God is the perfection which is not offered to human beings since the fall.

Jesus is God in that He has the nature of what God is. He is One with His Father because He comes from the Father. What flows from each family member is the love they have for each other (this love being the Holy Spirit). Hence the trinity.

What makes them separate is the roles each have. The Father is the Creator. The Son the Savior. The Holy Spirit the comforter.

When a believer says Jesus is God, what does it mean? Please do not repeat the scriptural evidence that proclaims it. If my salvation is dependent on believing it, I must know what it means. Who is the Jesus who is The God?

I think I want to add that for now, according to my own understanding, the man Yehoshua is god enough for me but I do not know how to understand he is The Father. How can I know he is the son and The Father? No scripture please.

 

[savagewind]

I think that is a good way of putting it Carlita. Thank you. But then they will say see! One God! Father, Son, Spirit all one god.

 

[nothead]

When a believer says Jesus is God, what does it mean? Please do not repeat the scriptural evidence that proclaims it. If my salvation is dependent on believing it, I must know what it means. Who is the Jesus who is The God?

I think I want to add that for now, according to my own understanding, the man Yehoshua is god enough for me but I do not know how to understand he is The Father. How can I know he is the son and The Father? No scripture please.

Know the Father through the Son, the Son not being God.

 

[sojourner]

God does not reveal His Truth to those who go to college and study.
God hides the truth from the wise and learned.

We're not talking about God's wisdom. We're talking about textual knowledge. You're confusing literary criticism with religious apologetics.

 

[Muffled]

Know the Father through the Son, the Son not being God.

I believe if Jesus were not God you would not know the Father either just as Jesus stated in scripture. I believe that also serves as evidence that Jesus is God.

 

[Muffled]

God does not reveal His Truth to those who go to college and study.
God hides the truth from the wise and learned.

I believe you are referring to this verse: Mt 11:25 At that season Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes:

I believe a careful look at the verse reveals that it was something God did in the past but it does not say that God does that always as a policy. I would suggest that nicodemus had things revealed to him by God and Saul of Tarsus who also was a learned man.

 

[Vishvavajra]

The question is not whether Jesus is/was God, but what exactly that means, and whether he was unique in that respect. His interpretation of Psalm 82 is particularly interesting, as he takes the Elohim to refer to human beings.

 

[moorea944]

The question is not whether Jesus is/was God, but what exactly that means, and whether he was unique in that respect. His interpretation of Psalm 82 is particularly interesting, as he takes the Elohim to refer to human beings.

Yes, Elohim can be God or man. God manifestation. Elohim is mostly used with the angels. Man can be Elohim too, like the Judges, priests, people like that. They were called that because they were the ones who brought the word of God to the people.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:" In Hebrew it is, "And the Elohim said...." The angels were there with God helping Him creation. They are the "fingers" of Yahweh as the bible says.

Thomas says to Jesus, you are my Lord and my God (Elohim). He knows that Jesus brings the word of God to the people or world. He is not calling Jesus Yahweh. He is calling him Elohim.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, Elohim can be God or man. God manifestation. Elohim is mostly used with the angels. Man can be Elohim too, like the Judges, priests, people like that. They were called that because they were the ones who brought the word of God to the people.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:" In Hebrew it is, "And the Elohim said...." The angels were there with God helping Him creation. They are the "fingers" of Yahweh as the bible says.

Thomas says to Jesus, you are my Lord and my God (Elohim). He knows that Jesus brings the word of God to the people or world. He is not calling Jesus Yahweh. He is calling him Elohim.

I believe being an Elohim does not exclude Jesus from being Yahweh. In fact it makes it more likely than if He were not.

 

[moorea944]

I believe being an Elohim does not exclude Jesus from being Yahweh.

Jesus is not Yahweh. He is the "son of God". Not God the son. He is also the son of David. The son of God and the son of man.

In fact it makes it more likely than if He were not.

Not at all. Elohim is God manifest in a multitude. It also means "mighty ones". Like we said before, in most cases in the bible, Elohim is the angels. God manifested in angels. Too many verses to mention, but lots of times in our "English" bibles where it says "angels", when you look it up in Hebrew, it is Elohim.