HOW is the healthcare bill unconstitutional? Any explanations?

[Mister_T]

Only evidence of past bills Govy puts their hands on like social security.

I'll take that as a "no".

When Republicans take over will they vote this bill out or twist it into use for their benefit?Sorry you are right I don't trust Govy and I think they will loot this healthcare plan the same as social security???
In the end the bad will override the good and the whole system will be twisted into more profits and power.I am not saying it as purposeful intentions but greed naturally runs it's course!

How are government officals going to loot this plan, and how are they currently looting social security? I keep asking for some sort of elaborations or some factual basis, and all I keep getting back is the same hysterical opinions that appear to have no backing.

 

[Walkntune]

"We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus." ...

Why would Bush make such a promise?

Sorry if I look to our history for truth instead of what the Govy says in the here and now???

 

[Mister_T]

Why would Bush make such a promise?

Sorry if I look to our history for truth instead of what the Govy says in the here and now???

I don't know why. Perhaps you could explain it and actually show me what factual basis you are getting this "truth" from.

 

[Walkntune]

I don't know why. Perhaps you could explain it and actually show me what factual basis you are getting this "truth" from.

What you need proof that Clinton and Bush administrations have been dipping in Social Security? Is this what you are asking?

 

[Mister_T]

What you need proof that Clinton and Bush administrations have been dipping in Social Security? Is this what you are asking?

Sure, that and everything you've been claiming. You've got something to show me?

 

[Autodidact]

Walkntune: What provision of the constitution do you believe this law violates?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Walkntune: What provision of the constitution do you believe this law violates?

There you go again Auto, trying to ruin a good rant with facts.

 

[Walkntune]

Walkntune: What provision of the constitution do you believe this law violates?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204518504574416623109362480.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

[tumbleweed41]

David B. Rivkin Jr. and Lee A. Casey: Mandatory Insurance Is Unconstitutional - WSJ.com

US Constitution

Article 1
Section 8




The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;




I would be really surprised if the Supreme Court sided with the misguided state AGs on this one.

 

[Mister_T]

I would be really surprised if the Supreme Court sided with the misguided state AGs on this one.

You have to remember though that this is the same Supreme Court that decided that corporations were persons. Nothing from them would really surprise me at this point.

 

[tumbleweed41]

You have to remember though that this is the same Supreme Court that decided that corporations were persons. Nothing from them would really surprise me at this point.

Uhg...good point

 

[Autodidact]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204518504574416623109362480.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Sorry, I don't want to know what David Rifkin thinks, I want to know what you think. It's a simple question, which I'm now asking you for the fourth time. What provision of the constitution do you think this law violates?

Why?

 

[Walkntune]

US Constitution

Article 1
Section 8




The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;




I would be really surprised if the Supreme Court sided with the misguided state AGs on this one.

And adding different favors in for different states in order to sway votes is also constitutional right?Keeps it nice and uniform?

 

[tumbleweed41]

And adding different favors in for different states in order to sway votes is also constitutional right?Keeps it nice and uniform?

What elements of the Health Bill favor one state above the other?
(Perhaps you should read the recently passed amendments to the Bill)

 

[Walkntune]

Sorry, I don't want to know what David Rifkin thinks, I want to know what you think. It's a simple question, which I'm now asking you for the fourth time. What provision of the constitution do you think this law violates?

Why?

And i believe it's unconstitutional because health care is not interstate commerce and to
to be penalised for for not buying into private companies is not constitutional but we will have to see how it plays out in the courts.

 

[Autodidact]

And i believe it's unconstitutional because health care is not interstate commerce

Healthcare is not interstate commerce?!?! My health insurance is Kaiser. Kaiser Permanente is an integrated managed care organization, based in Oakland, California, United States, founded in 1945 by industrialist Henry Kaiser and physician Sidney Garfield. Kaiser Permanente is a consortium of three distinct groups of entities: the Kaiser Foundation Health Plan and its regional operating subsidiaries, Kaiser Foundation Hospitals, and the autonomous regional Permanente Medical Groups. As of 2006, Kaiser Permanente operates in nine states and the District of Columbia, and is the largest managed care organization in the United States. [wiki] Please explain to me how that is not interstate commerce. Health Care is almost 18% of the GDP. Are you honestly trying to argue with a straight face that Congress has no power to regulate health care? No FDA, no Sugeon General? Is that your argument?!?!
btw, did you know that the SCOTUS has held that a person growing marijuana in their own backyard and smoking it in their house is engaged in interstate commerce? Gonzales v. Raich

and to to be penalised for for not buying into private companies is not constitutional but we will have to see how it plays out in the courts.

What provision of the Constitution do you think that violates?

 

[tumbleweed41]

And i believe it's unconstitutional because health care is not interstate commerce

My health insurance company is located in California. I live in Colorado. There are already federal laws regulating what the Insurance companies can and cannot do.
Why can they do this?


(Hint, it rhymes with glimmerstate glommerce)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

US Constitution

Article 1
Section 8




The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;




I would be really surprised if the Supreme Court sided with the misguided state AGs on this one.

So would I. I think it's eminently reasonable to interpret "general welfare" to include health.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

To me it's about what is best for a country, and I don't find it unconstitutional for the government to be the sole issuer of healthcare. What the insurance companies do defrauding and over-charging people for healthcare is beyond un-constitutional, it's down right highway robbery.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Now that the insurance companies have a captive customer, I see the premiums going up every year, not down. Car insurance used to be really cheap before states made it mandatory.