how is this a humble stance?

[waitasec]

part 1

Okay, continuing on...


Neither, I reiterate, neither one of the posts you referred to states, reflects or implies that I had a problem with you asking a question. You saying that they do...

okay, so if you don’t have a problem and like what i’m saying, then why are you disagreeing with me?

No, it does not. Earth accommodates humans very well. We have what we need in order to inhabit earth -- food, water, oxygen, gravity... It’s only natural to feel that it’s a strong possibility that the Creator had us inhabiting earth (in our physical forms) in mind at some point.

how sure are you that we didn’t adapt to the elements?

That’s not hubris.

yes it is. you are speculating these things based on wishful thinking, and nothing else. you are assuming purpose…based on wishful thinking

That’s reasoning. An example: “Robyn” and “Cheryl” are roommates. Both are great friends with “Richard.” Cheryl’s birthday will arrive in two weeks and all she’s been talking about is a Range Rover. Richard one day has a conversation with Cheryl about her birthday and he asks for details about what exactly her dream Range Rover would entail. Two weeks later, she arrives home to find the Range Rover of her dreams parked in front of her place with a big red bow wrapped around it. Is it hubris for her to feel that the car is a birthday gift to her from Richard, even though she lives with Robyn and it could very well be for Robyn? No, it isn’t. It’s reasoning.

Assuming you are equating the range rover with life, did you ask to be born?

As I stated along with my answer in my last post -- that’s all I’m willing to say about it.

then you are not presenting evidence
and it is sheer hubris for you to expect me to just take your word for it.

I’m not putting words in your mouth. You said that earth is insignificant because of a black hole. Therefore, by your logic, if we’re insignificant because of a black hole, so are all the other planets in all the other solar systems that have black holes as well. You also said that the entire universe is going to go black one day. That would render everything useless. Therefore, by your logic, everything would end up being deemed useless.

I never said useless did i? where in any of my statements have I ever said that we are useless? I have always contended that we are meaningful to each other, you’re the one who mentioned useless. insignificance in the context of comparing our existence to a black hole means just that, it does not imply uselessness, that is all you.

You do realize that cosmologists are human as well, right? There is an astronomical (no pun intended) amount of information about the universe that cosmologists know nothing about. They don’t know what’s going to happen to the universe. No one knows that but the Creator.

where did the idea of a creator originate from? isn’t this a concept concocted by ignorant people (ignorance doesn’t mean stupid, so please don’t take my statement there)? People, who had then been privy to the knowledge we have today, would have never created a creator to explain our existence.

, it doesn’t take hubris. You’re really stuck on that idea. Besides that point, I’m not going to go into details about why the Creator exists. If you want to know more details, you’ll have to go searching for it the threads as I've had the conversation before.

my question was how, not why…
so again, how do you know there is a creator? If you are speaking about a personal experience, then that would leave it as a subjective understanding on your part and you cannot expect others to understand it in the way you do, if you do then that is hubris…if you decline to explain your reasons for knowing that a creator exists and expect others to understand, that is hubris as well.

I didn’t state that you believed truth considers people’s feelings. I asked if you expected it to and it case you did, I went on to say that it doesn’t consider people’s feelings by writing: “Bluntly put -- that ain’t the way truth works” meaning the truth is the truth regardless of how people feel about that truth; whether that truth is liked or not.

I agree, I just don’t understand how you thought I would expected truth to consider peoples feelings after reading my OP or after I provided video footage of the tsunami…

 

[waitasec]

part 2

Per my example, acknowledging that 700,000 survived a tsunami and that 300,000 people died and saying that it’s fortunate that those 700,000 lived and tragic that those 300,000 died is not “candy coating” the truth. It’s stating the truth exactly as it is. That’s realism. Saying, however, that it doesn’t matter how many survive if even one dies seems like the reflection of someone who can never see the good/positive in anything because all they can see is the bad/negative.

the truth is 300,000 people died… because of their insignificance in the face of a tsunami. that is the point…
and the way in which some choose to reason why such needless death and suffering is to focus on those who didn’t…however there were those who did not survive…that is the point i am making when people are face to face with nature, truth… a tsunami.

I read what people write. If you don’t write it, I can’t read it. Again, what you wrote in Post #101 personified tsunamis and black holes for that matter. Now the quote you provided in your last post, clearly stated that you did not feel tsunamis had feelings. Only thing is, I had not read that post as I don’t read every single post in every thread. Therefore, I could only go by what you’d written to me, and what you wrote to me clearly personified tsunamis. Had you’d written to me the quote you used in your last post instead of what you stated in your post to me, I would have never believed and/or implied that you believed tsunamis had feelings.

why in the world would you expect me to think tsunamis consider our feelings when I ask if it is hubris to believe all this was created with us in mind?

I’m a human being. I don’t compare myself to tsunamis. A tsunami is a tsunami and I’m a soul inside a physical vehicle on earth. Souls don’t invalidate the significance of tsunamis, and tsunamis don’t invalidate the significance of souls.

you didn’t answer the question, is your life significant, considered or even relevant when you’re face to face with a tsunami?

In the above quote I am speaking specifically about creations. Things the Creator created. I’m saying that though I don’t know the specific reason, I know there is a reason.

even though you don’t know why there is a reason you know there is one…
how do you know? thus far, you haven’t even explained to me how it is you know this…

Then I wrote:"No one knows why things happen the way they happen. We don’t see what the Creator sees, we don’t know what He knows. We can’t see from His perspective. The Creator knows why all these things happen the way they do. We don’t.

In that quote, I am speaking of things that happen in the world. I'm stating that we don’t know why things happen the way they do because we can’t see from the Creator’s perspective.

Therefore, my logic is stated very clearly and has remained consistent. Your understanding of it is faulty.

your logic makes no sense to me
because you have yet to explain how it is you know this…and then you expect me to understand…that is hubris.

Again, we are insignificant in your mind and people that think like you. Maybe it’s more about your lack of esteem rather than what you see as others’ over confidence.

it takes more esteem to admit short comings or limitations then to pretend our short comings and limitations do not exist.

Have you not read what I’ve been stating over and over again. I stated that there is a reason for all of the Creator’s creations. Therefore, the ant was created for a reason. It is significant. And for the record, ants are very significant to me when I’m walking or I am in the grass as I try to avoid them so that I’m not their next meal.

and I’ll ask you again…HOW do you know this?
By you not explaining to me how you know this and expecting me to understand that you know because you know is hubris.

No, I still feel that by your logic, everything would end up being deemed useless. What I was agreeing with you about was that we have the ability to affect each other.

why do you equate significance on the same scale of comparing an orange to an apple as useless? as I have been saying all along we are significant to eachother because we are all the same…the black hole for lack of a better word to explain my POV is insignificance…

It was never a misconception on my part. I’ve never said that you didn’t believe we were significant to each other. Based on your statements, I understand that you know that we are significant to each other. I'd asked if you thought we were completely insignificant as creations.

yes because we do not KNOW that we were created…it is an idea based on wishful thinking…prove to me that it isn’t based on wishful thinking rather than the experience you refuse to get into while expecting me to understand what you mean by experience.
that idea is birthed from the notion that we must have a purpose…while comparing our existence to the elements

Again, it’s not hubris to feel that the Creator gets involved.

of course it is. are you telling me the creator is going to favor a rich kid that lives in beverly hills who can get the best treatment possible for the same disease some kid in th horn of africa has and is completely cut off from the same opportunity to receive treatment…
or elizabeth friztl…the girl who was locked up and raped by her own father for 20 yrs of her life in the basement of her home. was the creator just standing by watching in indifference while favoring another person from the same situation…? it is hubris to consider favoritism period.

It’s not hubris for people to have hope that the Creator gets involved. And to acknowledge that the Creator does get involved is not reflecting hubris; it’s showing gratitude.

hope and saying you’ve been favored is not the same thing…
saying you’ve been favored puts those

 

[thebigpicture]

okay, so if you don’t have a problem and like what i’m saying, then why are you disagreeing with me?

Waitasec, don’t you know what a debate is? My disagreeing with your P.O.V. and having a problem with you asking a question are two completely different things. Do you think everyone is going to agree with your stance? I disagree with your logic. Your logic does not make any sense to me; that does not equate with me having a problem with you asking a question. If I had a problem with you asking a question, I would have made a statement like, “Why did you start this thread?” That would have meant I had a problem with you asking a question.

how sure are you that we didn’t adapt to the elements?

Very.


Waitasec, this exchange between the two of us is pointless. We’re going in circles. We are not going to get on the same page, because we are in two completely different books. Why? Because you don’t believe in the Creator. You don’t even believe the Creator exists. Therefore, anything I say it’s not going to ring true to you, and anything you say to try to discredit the fact that we were created will be like you talking to a stone wall. So, there is no point. Therefore, I will say this, and I’ll be pretty much done with it.

People did not create the Creator; the Creator created us. And everything -- every single thing -- the Creator created, He created for a reason. We may not know all the reasons for all His creations, but there is a reason. We don’t know why things happen the way they happen in life or why this world is the way that it is, but people/earth are not insignificant and no, it is not hubris to think that we are significant -- just like it’s not hubris for a child to assume their parents planned them. (And by the way, I was not comparing a Range Rover to life. (sighs) I was giving yet another example of reasoning) And no, none of what I just wrote is based on wishful thinking. It’s based on experience, logic and reasoning.

As for my experiences... they are my experiences and if I don’t want to share them at this time, I won’t, period. No, I do not expect you to take my word for it. If something doesn’t ring true to me, I most certainly don’t just take people’s word for it. So why on earth would I expect you to take my word for it? You’re an individual. You’re not required to believe what someone else believes. If you don’t believe or agree with anything I say at all, it doesn’t bother me. I’m not here to convert anyone. I’m simply here to discuss points of view. You either believe or agree with what I say or you don’t. It works either way for me.

I feel that you are harboring a lot of bitterness and resentment. And maybe you have valid reasons to feel bitter. I don’t know you and don’t know what you’ve been through in life, but you sound like someone who’s holding anger. And no, I’m not trying to psychoanalyze you. I’m giving my honest opinion of you. You come off as a very pessimistic person; not just on this thread, but in general. And just the fact that when I gave an example of 700,000 out of a million surviving a tsunami and you responded that it basically means nothing if even one person dies, reflects a person they can’t see the positive in anything. It’s very true that even when one person dies, it’s tragic. That person’s being mourned. People don’t ignore victims of tragedy. To think that people acknowledge survivors only because they can’t understand why some died is very cynical. When tragedies of such massive nature as a tsunami occurs, people acknowledge both deaths and survivors because they can both appreciate the tragedy of lives lost as well as reflect gratitude for the lives spared. Again, I just feel like you are a negative person and I don’t know what made you that way, but the fact of the matter is that no matter what your outlook of life is, it’s not going to change anything in the world. The only effect your negativity and bitterness is going to have will be on you and those around you. The world is a very dark place. Anyone can see that. It’s in desperate need of a complete overhaul. And I could be totally wrong, but I truly feel that when the Creator steps in, He is going to destroy this place completely because of how dark it has become. All we can do is wait and in the meantime, continue to live right and do right by others. But, as I said, you don’t believe a Creator exists so...

Regarding hubris... hubris, hubris, hubris. (Chuckles) I think you are pretty much obsessed with that concept. You have taken it to a whole new level. I think pretty much anything falls under the category of hubris in your mind. The fact that people expect the sun to rise in the morning is probably hubris to you. The fact we expect the earth to continue to spin is probably hubris to you. I mean how dare we expect the sun to rise and why should the earth continue to spin and give us 365 days a year... sometimes 366? How arrogant of us to expect to continue to have the resources on earth to survive. We shouldn’t expect anything good to come out of life because we are not worthy; we are just measly insignificant beings that just one day popped into existence out of nowhere and adapted. There is absolutely nothing more to us and it is simply arrogant to think otherwise. That’s exactly how you sound to me. But, as I said, you have a right to feel the way you do. And I’m sure there are plenty that feel the way you, and there are plenty that don’t. I'm obviously one of those that don't. You seem to lack esteem for whatever reason. I don’t think you’re a realist; as I stated earlier, I think you are an all-out pessimist. But as I also stated before, I don’t know what you’ve experienced in life, so I certainly can’t say you don’t have reason to feel the way you do.

As I stated earlier, it doesn’t make much sense to keep going with this. The fact of the matter is that we could go on for another 30 pages of this conversation and we would still be exactly where we are now, don’t you agree? This has happened with you and I before, and if I can recall correctly that was also mainly because you don’t believe in the Creator. Nothing you say is going to change my P.O.V. and I’m sure nothing I say will change yours. So what’s the point in carrying on? It’s not at all constructive and I feel it’s a waste of both our time to keep going on and on with nothing new arising.

 

[waitasec]

Waitasec, don’t you know what a debate is? My disagreeing with your P.O.V. and having a problem with you asking a question are two completely different things. Do you think everyone is going to agree with your stance? I disagree with your logic. Your logic does not make any sense to me; that does not equate with me having a problem with you asking a question. If I had a problem with you asking a question, I would have made a statement like, “Why did you start this thread?” That would have meant I had a problem with you asking a question.

i don't have a problem with you disagreeing
i expect people to disagree with my logic

Very.

well that was convincing...not

Waitasec, this exchange between the two of us is pointless.

because i'm asking you a question you cannot answer...

We’re going in circles. We are not going to get on the same page, because we are in two completely different books. Why? Because you don’t believe in the Creator.

or maybe because you believe in a creator and you can't explain how you came to that conclusion

You don’t even believe the Creator exists. Therefore, anything I say it’s not going to ring true to you, and anything you say to try to discredit the fact that we were created will be like you talking to a stone wall. So, there is no point. Therefore, I will say this, and I’ll be pretty much done with it.

i've asked you time and time again for you to show me HOW you know there is a creator...it seems to me you can't show me how other than to say you belief in the creator is based on wishful thinking.

People did not create the Creator; the Creator created us. And everything -- every single thing -- the Creator created, He created for a reason. We may not know all the reasons for all His creations, but there is a reason. We don’t know why things happen the way they happen in life or why this world is the way that it is, but people/earth are not insignificant and no, it is not hubris to think that we are significant -- just like it’s not hubris for a child to assume their parents planned them. (And by the way, I was not comparing a Range Rover to life. (sighs) I was giving yet another example of reasoning) And no, none of what I just wrote is based on wishful thinking. It’s based on experience, logic and reasoning.

how do you you know this? where is the evidence that supports the claim of a creator that created us with a purpose?

As for my experiences... they are my experiences and if I don’t want to share them at this time, I won’t, period. No, I do not expect you to take my word for it.

of course you do...why would you say this:

anything you say to try to discredit the fact that we were created will be like you talking to a stone wall.

if you would just present evidence that we were created with a purpose then there would be no room to discredit anything...

If something doesn’t ring true to me, I most certainly don’t just take people’s word for it. So why on earth would I expect you to take my word for it? You’re an individual. You’re not required to believe what someone else believes. If you don’t believe or agree with anything I say at all, it doesn’t bother me. I’m not here to convert anyone. I’m simply here to discuss points of view. You either believe or agree with what I say or you don’t. It works either way for me.

because of this:

anything you say to try to discredit the fact that we were created will be like you talking to a stone wall.

if you would just present evidence that we were created with a purpose then there would be no room to discredit anything...

I feel that you are harboring a lot of bitterness and resentment. And maybe you have valid reasons to feel bitter. I don’t know you and don’t know what you’ve been through in life, but you sound like someone who’s holding anger. And no, I’m not trying to psychoanalyze you. I’m giving my honest opinion of you. You come off as a very pessimistic person; not just on this thread, but in general.

:redcard:
yes you are. did you have to go there?
how do you know this about me "in general" which is a completely ridiculous thing to say because you don't know me and i am not the topic of the discussion...

is a comedian funny all the time?

the discussion is how can this be a humble stance believing that everything in the universe was created with us in mind.... not me, not my motives (which is to debate and the reason why you have a problem with the question in the OP)

And just the fact that when I gave an example of 700,000 out of a million surviving a tsunami and you responded that it basically means nothing if even one person dies, reflects a person they can’t see the positive in anything.

not at all. i am self employed, i have to look for the positive.

The fact that people expect the sun to rise in the morning is probably hubris to you. The fact we expect the earth to continue to spin is probably hubris to you. I mean how dare we expect the sun to rise and why should the earth continue to spin and give us 365 days a year.

..
um well maybe because we know something about how the sunrises everyday...the knowledge is there to explain why the sun rises everyday
there is no knowledge that this was done with us in mind though

We shouldn’t expect anything good to come out of life because we are not worthy; we are just measly insignificant beings that just one day popped into existence out of nowhere and adapted.

this is you not me...i never said this...

i think the reason you disagree with me is because you cannot find meaning in life without a creator... or you're afraid to.

how does it feel to be psychoanalyzed?

 

[arcanum]

If you still believe the medieval model that the earth is the center of the cosmos you may have to check yourself. I think most intelligent religious people have since moved on from that hopefully. One could also take away that It not only demonstrates how insignificant we are but how awesome god is...especially if your familiar with the concept of emanations and that the cosmos is actually the bottom rung of the ladder.

 

[waitasec]

If you still believe the medieval model that the earth is the center of the cosmos you may have to check yourself. I think most intelligent religious people have since moved on from that hopefully. One could also take away that It not only demonstrates how insignificant we are but how awesome god is...especially if your familiar with the concept of emanations and that the cosmos is actually the bottom rung of the ladder.

i don't know about that. i've seen plenty of intelligent religious people pray for favoritism from god.

 

[thebigpicture]

i don't have a problem with you disagreeing
i expect people to disagree with my logic

What you should’ve written was: “I expect people to disagree with my logic... But once I make my points, darnitt, then I expect them to agree.” (lol!) That would’ve been more accurate. Anyway, I most certainly believe you do indeed have a problem with me disagreeing with you; otherwise, you wouldn’t have such a problem with me saying:

Originally Posted by thebigpicture
Therefore, anything I say it’s not going to ring true to you, and anything you say to try to discredit the fact that we were created will be like you talking to a stone wall. So, there is no point.

I noticed how you kept leaving out the first part of what I stated so I wrote the whole thing out for you. If you notice, I said it was pointless for us to continue because it was pretty obvious that neither of us were going to change our position, which again... doesn’t bother me. It doesn’t matter if you feel the way I do or not. You can keep thinking that everyone and everything is insignificant ‘til the cows come home. That’s your belief and you have a right to believe what you want. Again, if you agree with me, fine; if not, fine. It works for me either way. The thing is is that you’re not going to change your views, yet you seem to have a big problem with me not changing my views. You don’t like the fact that I’m not willing to change my views; that’s the reason you emphasized what I stated: “. . . and anything you say to try to discredit the fact that we were created will be like you talking to a stone wall” more than once -- it’s because you don’t like the fact that I refuse to change my position on the matter. Now that -- that’s hubris on your part, dontcha think? (chuckles) Go on ahead and deny it, but you’re not going to make me believe you don’t have a problem with my disagreeing with you, ‘cause it’s pretty obvious to me that you do.

because i'm asking you a question you cannot answer...

or maybe because you believe in a creator and you can't explain how you came to that conclusion

i've asked you time and time again for you to show me HOW you know there is a creator...it seems to me you can't show me how other than to say you belief in the creator is based on wishful thinking.

how do you you know this? where is the evidence that supports the claim of a creator that created us with a purpose?

if you would just present evidence that we were created with a purpose then there would be no room to discredit anything...

You say I can’t answer your questions, let’s examine. This was your question in your OP:

to actually believe that this universe was created with us in mind?

doesn't it take a fair amount of hubris to believe such a thing?

You went on to ask me about the Creator. I answered both questions more than twice. Here's one of the answers for each.

Originally Posted by thebigpicture
And no, it is not “hubris” to believe or know our significance. I, myself, most certainly do not believe that the Creator created the entire universe with us in mind. But I most certainly believe He created some aspects as a part of His plan for us (sort of the way parents start getting things ready because they know they’ll be having kids), and I most certainly believe He created us for a specific reason. There’s a reason for all that the Creator created even when we don’t realize what that reason is.

. . .I’m not going to go into details about why the Creator exists. If you want to know more details, you’ll have to go searching for it the threads as I’ve had this conversation before.

In my last post alone were the answers to your questions:

People did not create the Creator; the Creator created us. And everything -- every single thing -- the Creator created, He created for a reason. We may not know all the reasons for all His creations, but there is a reason. We don’t know why things happen the way they happen in life or why this world is the way that it is, but people/earth are not insignificant and no, it is not hubris to think that we are significant -- just like it’s not hubris for a child to assume their parents planned them. And no, none of what I just wrote is based on wishful thinking. It’s based on experience, logic and reasoning.

As for my experiences... they are my experiences and if I don’t want to share them at this time, I won’t, period.

Therefore, I answered your questions. You just didn’t like the answers. (Chuckles) And that’s too bad, because sorry -- the answers are not going to change.

:redcard:
yes you are. did you have to go there?
how do you know this about me "in general" which is a completely ridiculous thing to say because you don't know me and i am not the topic of the discussion...

the discussion is how can this be a humble stance believing that everything in the universe was created with us in mind.... not me, not my motives (which is to debate and the reason why you have a problem with the question in the OP)

In case you’ve forgotten, you brought yourself into this by mentioning things that has happened in your personal life. Did you forget that? You brought your own motives into this by giving specific and very personal examples of things that have happened in your life that causes you to feel we are insignificant. So don’t pretend I’m the one that’s making this personal. What I’m doing is expressing my opinion of you based on the things you have said. And just so you’ll know, I’ve had this opinion about you for quite a bit now -- welllll before this thread. I formed that opinion about you reading other posts of yours in other threads that did not even involve a conversation between you and me. The reason I expressed it to you during this conversation is because my opinion of you was most solidified during this conversation and because based on the things you’ve said specifically in this thread, it was relevant for me to bring it up. I feel the reason you feel we are insignificant is because of what appears to be your negative outlook. No, I do not know you personally, but that doesn’t mean I can’t form an opinion about you based on what you present whether you like that opinion or not.

is a comedian funny all the time?

um well maybe because we know something about how the sunrises everyday...the knowledge is there to explain why the sun rises everyday
there is no knowledge that this was done with us in mind though

The more you write, the less sense you make to me.

not at all. i am self employed, i have to look for the positive.

You may have the looking down, it's the actual finding the positive you seem to be having the problem with.

this is you not me...i never said this...

No, you didn’t write those exact words. Very true. But you might as well have, because it’s exactly how you come off, which is the point I was making.

i think the reason you disagree with me is because you cannot find meaning in life without a creator... or you're afraid to.

Boy you’re really grasping at straws. (LOL!!) Nope! I disagree with you because you just make no sense to me. I see no logic in your point of view. You haven’t written one thing -- not one single thing -- that makes me believe we are insignificant. I don’t understand what part of that you don’t understand. I’ve said it many times that I simply don’t agree with you, plain and simple:

Originally Posted by thebigpicture
Again... I’m not seeing any sense in what you are saying. Not any. None.

No, it’s not that I’m “having a hard time putting (myself) in a position of insignificance,” Waitasec. I just really don’t see the logic in your reasoning.

This is not about whether or not I like what you are saying, Waitasec. I’m not one to evade truth. I just simply don’t agree with what you are saying, period. If you were saying something I agreed with, if I felt it was truth, I would agree it was the truth, whether I liked the truth or not. I’m not the type who’ll evade what’s true. I simply don’t see any logic in what you are saying, plain and simple. No more; no less.

Our entire discourse has not been about me not liking your question; it’s been about me disagreeing with your beliefs; with your point of view.

I mean do you find it so impossible that I would disagree with you simply because you don’t make sense to me? Tch, tch, tch... Hubris, hubris, hubris. That’s what you seem to be exhibiting here, Waitasec. Now, you, of all people, should know better. (smile) Again, it’s just seems pretty obvious to me that you just simply have a problem with me disagreeing with you. Now go on and deny it, but it’s clear as day.

how does it feel to be psychoanalyzed?

(LOL!) That just sounded silly to me. You’ve really got me confused with someone who cares about someone psychoanalyzing them. You could write an entire psychoanalytic book on what you think my personality is and it wouldn’t bother me. If I felt it necessary, I’d correct you on what you got wrong, as I did above, but I most certainly wouldn’t get upset about it. You have an opinion about me, express it. If you’re wrong, and I feel it necessary to correct you, I’ll correct you. It’s as simple as that. It’s not that big a deal.

As I've said before, Waitasec, this monotonous conversation is not going to progress. It’s pointless to keep going. I’m moving on... Arrivederci!

 

[thebigpicture]

If you still believe the medieval model that the earth is the center of the cosmos you may have to check yourself. I think most intelligent religious people have since moved on from that hopefully. One could also take away that It not only demonstrates how insignificant we are but how awesome god is...especially if your familiar with the concept of emanations and that the cosmos is actually the bottom rung of the ladder.

To whom is this post written?

 

[waitasec]

What you should&#8217;ve written was: <snip>this monotonous conversation is not going to progress

all this and you still can't tell me how it is you know that there is a creator who created us with a purpose.

yes it is hubris for you to think that i will understand your reasons for believing in a creator when you refuse to present any evidence.

 

[waitasec]

What you should’ve written was: “I expect people to disagree with my logic... But once I make my points, darnitt, then I expect them to agree.” (lol!) That would’ve been more accurate. Anyway, I most certainly believe you do indeed have a problem with me disagreeing with you; otherwise, you wouldn’t have such a problem with me saying:



I noticed how you kept leaving out the first part of what I stated so I wrote the whole thing out for you. If you notice, I said it was pointless for us to continue because it was pretty obvious that neither of us were going to change our position, which again... doesn’t bother me. It doesn’t matter if you feel the way I do or not. You can keep thinking that everyone and everything is insignificant ‘til the cows come home. That’s your belief and you have a right to believe what you want. Again, if you agree with me, fine; if not, fine. It works for me either way. The thing is is that you’re not going to change your views, yet you seem to have a big problem with me not changing my views. You don’t like the fact that I’m not willing to change my views; that’s the reason you emphasized what I stated: “. . . and anything you say to try to discredit the fact that we were created will be like you talking to a stone wall” more than once -- it’s because you don’t like the fact that I refuse to change my position on the matter. Now that -- that’s hubris on your part, dontcha think? (chuckles) Go on ahead and deny it, but you’re not going to make me believe you don’t have a problem with my disagreeing with you, ‘cause it’s pretty obvious to me that you do.



You say I can’t answer your questions, let’s examine. This was your question in your OP:



You went on to ask me about the Creator. I answered both questions more than twice. Here's one of the answers for each.



In my last post alone were the answers to your questions:



Therefore, I answered your questions. You just didn’t like the answers. (Chuckles) And that’s too bad, because sorry -- the answers are not going to change.



In case you’ve forgotten, you brought yourself into this by mentioning things that has happened in your personal life. Did you forget that? You brought your own motives into this by giving specific and very personal examples of things that have happened in your life that causes you to feel we are insignificant. So don’t pretend I’m the one that’s making this personal. What I’m doing is expressing my opinion of you based on the things you have said. And just so you’ll know, I’ve had this opinion about you for quite a bit now -- welllll before this thread. I formed that opinion about you reading other posts of yours in other threads that did not even involve a conversation between you and me. The reason I expressed it to you during this conversation is because my opinion of you was most solidified during this conversation and because based on the things you’ve said specifically in this thread, it was relevant for me to bring it up. I feel the reason you feel we are insignificant is because of what appears to be your negative outlook. No, I do not know you personally, but that doesn’t mean I can’t form an opinion about you based on what you present whether you like that opinion or not.



The more you write, the less sense you make to me.



You may have the looking down, it's the actual finding the positive you seem to be having the problem with.



No, you didn’t write those exact words. Very true. But you might as well have, because it’s exactly how you come off, which is the point I was making.



Boy you’re really grasping at straws. (LOL!!) Nope! I disagree with you because you just make no sense to me. I see no logic in your point of view. You haven’t written one thing -- not one single thing -- that makes me believe we are insignificant. I don’t understand what part of that you don’t understand. I’ve said it many times that I simply don’t agree with you, plain and simple:



I mean do you find it so impossible that I would disagree with you simply because you don’t make sense to me? Tch, tch, tch... Hubris, hubris, hubris. That’s what you seem to be exhibiting here, Waitasec. Now, you, of all people, should know better. (smile) Again, it’s just seems pretty obvious to me that you just simply have a problem with me disagreeing with you. Now go on and deny it, but it’s clear as day.



(LOL!) That just sounded silly to me. You’ve really got me confused with someone who cares about someone psychoanalyzing them. You could write an entire psychoanalytic book on what you think my personality is and it wouldn’t bother me. If I felt it necessary, I’d correct you on what you got wrong, as I did above, but I most certainly wouldn’t get upset about it. You have an opinion about me, express it. If you’re wrong, and I feel it necessary to correct you, I’ll correct you. It’s as simple as that. It’s not that big a deal.

As I've said before, Waitasec, this monotonous conversation is not going to progress. It’s pointless to keep going. I’m moving on... Arrivederci!

and i might add, this entire post proves without a doubt the lack of humility it takes to have in order for one to progress...
gosh big picture you have arrived, how does it feel to know everything?