How many Commandments are there?

[TheKnight]

so, when his law actively commands him to kill homosexuals, how exactly does he use this as a guide? either he follows his command, and obeys god, or he does not follow ,disobeys god and disregards his command. there is no guideline or hint taking here. its just like being pregnant, either you are, or you are not. no kinda, sorta maybes...

Obviously, you do not understand the breadth of the laws that God gave in the Torah. In CA law, if you read 524 P.C. you will see that it says "Every person who attempts, by means of any threat, such as is
specified in Section 519 of this code, to extort money or other
property from another is punishable by imprisonment in the county
jail not longer than one year or in the state prison or by fine not
exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both such fine and
imprisonment."

Would it be appropriate, then, to ask why Californians don't go around punishing extortionists? No. Because there is a justice system that has a particular way of operating.

The same with Torah law. The Torah is eternal and it is adaptable to all time periods. Torah commands that we put to death certain people after they are convicted of certain crimes. It does not, nor has it ever, commanded anyone to behave as a vigilante and take justice into their own hands.

and do/does you/jewish society follow this law today, yes or no??????

The answer to this question is yes.

you dont thing murdering homosexuals for the crime of their very existence is wrong?

The commandment in Torah prohibits sexual physical interaction between members of the same sex. It does not prohibit being a homosexual.

 

[tomasortega]

13. And a man who lies with a male as one would with a woman both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon themselves.


This is not a demand that anyone capable of reading the book of Leviticus become a vigilante. ..)

this is a demand that any man be "put to death" for having sexual relations with another man. period. anyone "capable" of reading leviticus doesnt go out killing people for the BS reasons listed in leviticus, because they know better than that.....

you on the other hand claim to follow these commandments, and claim they are significant even today.

then, when i ask you about it you admit you dont actually follow the commandments because of excuse A, B and C.

and then you claim that because you have these excuses you are actually still obeying god's commandments..... WHICH IS CONTRADICTORY NONSENSE.

either you follow god's commands or you do not........ the reasoning for either choice is a completely separate issue.

There is criminal justice procedure. There is due process..)

how does this change the actual content of the laws/commandments????????

One could suggest that since it was such a complicated matter to put someone to death according to the Torah, that no homosexual was ever actually put to death because of this verse...)

so once again i ask, how does this change god's actual command????????

The only issue you can't seem to wrap your mind around is that there are many laws which can only be applied when the Temple is standing in Jerusalem...

and since the temple is not standing in jerusalem, those godgiven laws are obsolete. aka. no longer in use. is that so hard to admit??

you simply figure "The Jews aren't following their laws".

because you are not. the various reasons/excuses for why you are not are besides the point. the point is wether or not you are following laws of thousands of years ago, in today's society. the answer is NO.

By not killing gay people or slaughtering lambs, we ARE following the law by not doing things outside of their appointed place

and in what appointed place is that? a place that doesnt exist anylonger right? because if that appointed place existed in today's society you would surely murder homosexuals, and non virgins on their wedding night, wouldnt you.


so since the circumstances do not allow for something to exist anylonger, that certain something is OBSOLETE. the reason why that certain something is obsolete does not change the fact that it IS, OBSOLETE.

watch out folks, poisonshady's reply will once again enlighten us on the difficulty and complexity of following god's commands:foot:

 

[tomasortega]

Obviously, you do not understand the breadth of the laws that God gave in the Torah. In CA law, if you read 524 P.C. you will see that it says "Every person who attempts, by means of any threat, such as is
specified in Section 519 of this code, to extort money or other
property from another is punishable by imprisonment in the county
jail not longer than one year or in the state prison or by fine not
exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both such fine and
imprisonment."

Would it be appropriate, then, to ask why Californians don't go around punishing extortionists? No. Because there is a justice system that has a particular way of operating.

The same with Torah law. The Torah is eternal and it is adaptable to all time periods. Torah commands that we put to death certain people after they are convicted of certain crimes. It does not, nor has it ever, commanded anyone to behave as a vigilante and take justice into their own hands.



The answer to this question is yes.

let me put it this way. god says that homosexual sex is a CRIME/SIN/ABOMINATION and demands it be punished by death. do you agree with god?? and when/if given the change/right circumstances, would you kill a homosexual for having sexual intercourse with a member of his own sex? either you disagree/undermind god, or you are a bigot. which is it?? simple yes or no answer.

"The commandment in Torah prohibits sexual physical interaction between members of the same sex. It does not prohibit being a homosexual"

so its fine to be a homosexual, as long as you dont behave like one :clap

because as we all know god hates the act of male genitalia rubbing together, but loves the homosexual man who has those thoughts and mindset.:sarcastic

 

[TheKnight]

let me put it this way. god says that homosexual sex is a CRIME/SIN/ABOMINATION and demands it be punished by death. do you agree with god?? and when/if given the change/right circumstances, would you kill a homosexual for having sexual intercourse with a member of his own sex? either you disagree/undermind god, or you are a bigot. which is it?? simple yes or no answer.

You are right, God commands that homosexual sex is a crime and is punishable by death. I, as His follower, agree with God. If given the chance and right circumstances (which means convicting a person of that capital crime through due processes in a valid Judaic court), I would kill a homosexual for having sexual intercourse for having sexual relations with a member of his own sex.

God does not command that I go administer justice, but that I act within the laws He gave (within ALL of them as a body of law). I (and all observant Jews and Noahides) obey God's laws to the best of our ability.

 

[tomasortega]

You are right, God commands that homosexual sex is a crime and is punishable by death. I, as His follower, agree with God. If given the chance and right circumstances (which means convicting a person of that capital crime through due processes in a valid Judaic court), I would kill a homosexual for having sexual intercourse for having sexual relations with a member of his own sex..

thanks, so you are a homophobic bigot, who would like to murder people for physically expressing their love and affection towards another person of the same sex.

and then you wonder why religion is under attack nowdays.

God does not command that I go administer justice, but that I act within the laws He gave (within ALL of them as a body of law). I (and all observant Jews and Noahides) obey God's laws to the best of our ability.

though you dont actually obey a majority of god's laws. i wonder what god thinks of his people picking, choosing, editing, adding, his laws as they see fit.

 

[Poisonshady313]

...

Apparently you're a little too simple.

If you can't wrap your mind around concepts like not having an authoritative court of law before which to bring capital cases, then it's going to be hard to explain anything to you.

You stubbornly have your own vision of how things work according to a very superficial reading of a law you couldn't possibly hope to understand.

This has been a lot of fun, but I'm moving on. Have a nice day.

 

[TheKnight]

thanks, so you are a homophobic bigot, who would like to murder people for physically expressing their love and affection towards another person of the same sex.

and then you wonder why religion is under attack nowdays.

Yep. That's right. I just hate those darn homos so much that I would really like to kill them for expressing their love and affection towards one another. I'm just a big ol' homophobic bigot.

[/sarcasm]


Apparently your anti-semitic unjustified hatred is more pleasing to you than the truth.

 

[tomasortega]

Yep. That's right. I just hate those darn homos so much that I would really like to kill them for expressing their love and affection towards one another. I'm just a big ol' homophobic bigot.

absolutely, and you have made this clear in your last post:

God commands that homosexual sex is a crime and is punishable by death. I, as His follower, agree with God. If given the chance and right circumstances I would kill a homosexual for having sexual intercourse for having sexual relations with a member of his own sex

 

[tomasortega]

Apparently you're a little too simple.

If you can't wrap your mind around concepts like not having an authoritative court of law before which to bring capital cases, then it's going to be hard to explain anything to you.

You stubbornly have your own vision of how things work according to a very superficial reading of a law you couldn't possibly hope to understand.

This has been a lot of fun, but I'm moving on. Have a nice day.

after all these posts, like a stubborn child, you still try to mix up two separate issues in hopes of justifying one with the other....yes, go away im done with you.

 

[TheKnight]

absolutely, and you have made this clear in your last post:


[/SIZE]

I said that I hate homosexuals and would like to kill them for expressing their love for one another? Hmm. That's odd, because I'm pretty sure that what you quoted isn't that I hate them and would like to kill them.

 

[tomasortega]

I said that I hate homosexuals and would like to kill them for expressing their love for one another? Hmm. That's odd, because I'm pretty sure that what you quoted isn't that I hate them and would like to kill them.

no, of course you dont hate gays, you would just kill them because you love them so much right?

 

[gwk230]

two points here:
1 ASSUMING THE TORAH ITSELF IS FLAWLESS, who was the torah intended for?? god?, animals,? aliens? of course not, it was made and intended for the people right? so if the torah is useless/obsolete to the people. its obsolete period. because there is no other use for it. if i use a regular antiseptic vinyl glove to pull the turkey out of the oven, the glove is useless to me and i will burn my hand not because the glove itself is imperfect, but because it was not intended for heat. so just like the glove in this example, the commandments are obsolete/useless to us. thus making them obsolete/useless period.

　
Well, one could look at it that way. I myself believe it to be the wrong way but hey, that’s my prerogative as it is yours right? I see the Torah being the same now as it was the day it was given, unchanged. And it is this Torah that all of mankind must need live by or eventually suffer the consequences. Your analogy is thus flawed. The Torah cannot be viewed as the glove for you yourself said that the Torah was meant for the people but that type of glove was not meant for the purpose you used it for. Just like your own thoughts and feelings are not useful for the task of living your own life. The Torah is useful for instructing one’s way through life.
　

2. YOU SAY THE TORAH ITSELF IS NOT OBSOLETE. how so??

　
Because no matter what has happened or who may have control over the physical bodies that are now here on earth or those of the past the Torah is still here and will continue to be an influence in the lives of those who accept it and live by it until the end. No matter what anyone thinks, feels or does will ever, ever change that fact.
　

you dont thing murdering homosexuals for the crime of their very existence is wrong? if god doesnt want homosexuality then how come he lets people be born with hormonal imbalances? some are born neither male nor female. some are born both male and female. and the animal kingdom is mostly bisexual. how does that make any sense? what about the other examples ive listed earlier, you dont see any problems with them? its rather obvious that the commandments themselfes were written by mere humans limited to the thinking and influences of their own time and society.

　
What I think is totally besides the point. I live to please my El. I will do whatever he commands me to do. No matter what anyone else thinks and feels about it. I also cannot allow any earthly thoughts and feeling that I may have, which I have yet to fully mortify, to get in the way of my servitude to my El. Of course men do not like it when they are told to do or not to do one thing or another. If one as a child begins to have feelings of a sexual nature toward another of his same sex then it is something that should be viewed as a test. Its put on you to see if you will obey or disobey. Homosexuality isn’t the only abominable act that one can choose to commit. There are others and they all carry the same judgment. Death. We just can’t, righteously at this point and time, carry out said judgment as others have exhaustively tried to convey to you.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Seems like an odd question for the forum, but OK. I would guess that there are more than you or I could count; from the humble ketchup to the more deeply layered chutney. I would think every region of every country has their own, and the number probably doubles if you include sauces.

 

[tomasortega]

Seems like an odd question for the forum, but OK. I would guess that there are more than you or I could count; from the humble ketchup to the more deeply layered chutney. I would think every region of every country has their own, and the number probably doubles if you include sauces.

lol, its sunday, i know, but what on earth are you on that would make you believe this thread is about condiments rather than commandments?

 

[Poisonshady313]

lol, its sunday, i know, but what on earth are you on that would make you believe this thread is about condiments rather than commandments?

He's a pastafarian. He lives according to condiments.

 

[Scott C.]

Hi All

I'll ask a simple question.
Given God "spoke" them only once and they were fairly short and subsinct will the real Commandments Please stand up.

What are the 10 commandments?

Having done that I now ask

Do they have any relevance in a 21st Century world?

The greatest commandments are to love God and to love our fellowman. There are an infinite number of ways in which we can violate either or both of these commandments. When we show unkindness, irreverence, or disrespect to others or God, or harm others, we are violating one or both of these commandments.

Specific examples are murder, stealing, dishonoring parents, using God's name in vain, unchastity, filthy language, greed, not caring for the poor, pride, selfishness, spouse abuse, child abuse, cheating, coveting, lust, sabbath breaking, breaking the laws of your country (except in unusual circumstances), drunkeness, immodesty, defacing the human body, placing things above God, laziness, unwillingness to help others in need, looking down on others, failure to rely on God, ingratitude, boastfulness, and anger towards God and fellow man.

And the list goes on and on. It's impossible to name all of the ways in which a person can violate God's will and so demonstrate a lack of love towards God and fellowman. If you look at it this way, there are an infinite number of commandments. Or if you prefer, you can think of it as two commandments, upon which all other commandments hang.

The mission in life is to be introspective and to improve little by little, to repent, to lean on God, and to ask Him to help us do better day by day. Besides relying on God to help, this also requires dedicated self discipline and commitment. Until we're perfect, which won't happen in our lives, we all have need to do better.