How Many People Has Satan Murdered?

Tumah · May 22, 2016

ThirtyThree said:
Annihilation or permanently being unable to enter into Heaven. What do the the spirits of those forbidden entry do? Where do they go?

If I am correct, the concept that is referred to there, is called the "slingshot". And it means they run around the world being chased by angels of destruction until such merit can be found for them as to allow their release.

ThirtyThree · May 22, 2016

Tumah said:
If I am correct, the concept that is referred to there, is called the "slingshot". And it means they run around the world being chased by angels of destruction until such merit can be found for them as to allow their release.

Okay. What do you mean by "release"? Those permanently restricted from Heaven end up where?

Tumah · May 22, 2016

ThirtyThree said:
Okay. What do you mean by "release"?

Release from having to run around so that they can enter "Hell" and begin the cleansing process.

Those permanently restricted from Heaven end up where?

Running around the world without their bodies (as they are dead), being chased by angels of destruction.

I'm not sure if the restriction from Heaven's permanence is anything more than a technical thing, since from what I know its possible to gain a merit to become unrestricted. But I could be misunderstanding what that Rabbi is referring to, in which case I'm wrong.

ThirtyThree · May 22, 2016

Tumah said:
Release from having to run around so that they can enter "Hell" and begin the cleansing process.

Running around the world without their bodies (as they are dead), being chased by angels of destruction.

I'm not sure if the restriction from Heaven's permanence is anything more than a technical thing, since from what I know its possible to gain a merit to become unrestricted. But I could be misunderstanding what that Rabbi is referring to, in which case I'm wrong.

Hell is temporary then? What happens to a person there?

Tumah · May 22, 2016

ThirtyThree said:
Hell is temporary then? What happens to a person there?

They are cleansed through various forms of suffering according to their individual circumstances/sins etc.

ThirtyThree · May 22, 2016

Tumah said:
They are cleansed through various forms of suffering according to their individual circumstances/sins etc.

Where is choice taken into account in all this? Suppose someone did not desire to spend forever and ever with g-d? Are rebellious humans just punished until they have, in g-d's opinion, paid their dues and then are permitted to enter Heaven?

Tumah · May 22, 2016

ThirtyThree said:
Where is choice taken into account in all this? Suppose someone did not desire to spend forever and ever with g-d? Are rebellious humans just punished until they have, in g-d's opinion, paid their dues and then are permitted to enter Heaven?

I understand that its similar to an addiction, where the soul knows what's good for it, but is already trained to mundane desires. Once it is purified in purgatory, the spiritual desire of the soul is able to come out.

ThirtyThree · May 22, 2016

Tumah said:
I understand that its similar to an addiction, where the soul knows what's good for it, but is already trained to mundane desires. Once it is purified in purgatory, the spiritual desire of the soul is able to come out.

Okay. If souls are purified regardless, what is the value of any choice humans make?

Tumah · May 22, 2016

ThirtyThree said:
Okay. If souls are purified regardless, what is the value of any choice humans make?

Whether they get box seats or bleachers in heaven.

ThirtyThree · May 22, 2016

Tumah said:
Whether they get box seats or bleachers in heaven.

What if they do not want to go there in general?

Tumah · May 22, 2016

ThirtyThree said:
What if they do not want to go there in general?

We've spoken about that.

ThirtyThree · May 22, 2016

Tumah said:
We've spoken about that.

That bias view does nothing to settle me regarding this belief. However, it will have to be sufficient. Regardless, thank you for all of your answers.

EtuMalku · May 22, 2016

Tumah said:
The name Shemael is not found in the Talmud, nor would it mean "lord of the genii and demons" if it was, as the word for demon in Hebrew is "Sheid".

For that matter Samael is never mentioned in the Talmud either

Tumah · May 22, 2016

EtuMalku said:
For that matter Samael is never mentioned in the Talmud either

Besides for Sotah 10b.

There are also numerous Midrashic and Kabbaslist sources that name Samael. The closest I could find to the name Shemael was a Shema(i)el mentioned once in passing along with two other angels that are related to him.

It occurs to me that you meant to imply that Samael was originally pronounced Shemael (which in Hebrew would mean "there is G-d" or "name of G-d"). In Hebrew the letter ש does serve as both a /sh/ and /s/, but Samael is actually spelled with a ס which only has the sound /s/. Shemal could possible also be pronounced S(e)mol which sounds somewhat similar to Samael and means 'left'. In the Zoharic passage I found the name Shema(i)el is also related to the left (which has a slightly different meaning in Judaism). But in that passage, the name is spelled with an ע as well, and its meaning is related to hearing. Incidentally, Samael means "spice/medicine of G-d".

Almost all angels in Judaism end with the suffix -el. So the parallel is being drawn because the first two letters of both names could be pronounced similarly if one chose to do so and because among the things that Samael is in charge of, a group of demons happens to be included.

ThirtyThree · May 22, 2016

Tumah said:
Besides for Sotah 10b.

There are also numerous Midrashic and Kabbaslist sources that name Samael. The closest I could find to the name Shemael was a Shema(i)el mentioned once in passing along with two other angels that are related to him.

It occurs to me that you meant to imply that Samael was originally pronounced Shemael (which in Hebrew would mean "there is G-d" or "name of G-d"). In Hebrew the letter ש does serve as both a /sh/ and /s/, but Samael is actually spelled with a ס which only has the sound /s/. Shemal could possible also be pronounced S(e)mol which sounds somewhat similar to Samael and means 'left'. In the Zoharic passage I found the name Shema(i)el is also related to the left (which has a slightly different meaning in Judaism). But in that passage, the name is spelled with an ע as well, and its meaning is related to hearing. Incidentally, Samael means "spice/medicine of G-d".

Almost all angels in Judaism end with the suffix -el. So the parallel is being drawn because the first two letters of both names could be pronounced similarly if one chose to do so and because among the things that Samael is in charge of, a group of demons happens to be included.

What happened in the Garden of Eden in your faith, different from how Christians see it?

Tumah · May 23, 2016

ThirtyThree said:
What happened in the Garden of Eden in your faith, different from how Christians see it?

Well, there was no apple, for one.

ThirtyThree · May 23, 2016

Tumah said:
Well, there was no apple, for one.

Indeed.

ThirtyThree · May 23, 2016

Tumah said:
Well, there was no apple, for one.

Do you believe Eve might have had intercourse with the Nachash? Else...

Genesis 3:7 KJVS
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. (Loin coverings)

Genesis 3:16 KJVS
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Genesis 3:15 KJVS
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Would just not make any sense to me. Literal snakes have seed? Does the punishment not fit the crime, in Eve's case?

Tumah · May 23, 2016

ThirtyThree said:
Do you believe Eve might have had intercourse with the Nachash? Else...

Genesis 3:7 KJVS
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. (Loin coverings)

Genesis 3:16 KJVS
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Genesis 3:15 KJVS
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Would just not make any sense to me. Literal snakes have seed? Does the punishment not fit the crime, in Eve's case?

Snakes have seed, just like all animals do. Its the Biblical word for semen and in this case (and often the case) a metaphor for descendants.

ThirtyThree · May 23, 2016

Tumah said:
Snakes have seed, just like all animals do. Its the Biblical word for semen and in this case (and often the case) a metaphor for descendants.

Exactly. The line of Cain, if I am correct?

How Many People Has Satan Murdered?

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