How materialists find meaning in life

[BSM1]

Throw the pop corn out. But thats the purpose, to watch it that one time. Its like my brother. I finally saw him after what six years just walking through the library. Should I disregard that one experience knowing about him, I may not see him again?

Same as the movie. Probably why people watch reruns of Sapranos rather than accepting the last season has been over for couple of years. I think its how one percieves it. If in knows its a reruun and they just like it, thats fine. If one watches it as if a new episode..hm...

But you never watch a movie to simply forget about it later. You watch hoping to take something away from the experience. If this is not possible or even feasible why go to the show in the first place?

 

[George-ananda]

@MattMVS7

In my school of thought our core consciousness is Brahman which is eternal being-awareness-bliss. In the finite world this means we have an innate drive to be happy and to survive and that is why we dislike unhappiness and death. Once we realize our true nature as eternal consciousness, we are free from unhappiness and death; they were only part of the illusion we were caught up in.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But you never watch a movie to simply forget about it later. You watch hoping to take something away from the experience. If this is not possible or even feasible why go to the show in the first place?

Hmm. Like listening to family history, I watch movies to take something from it. The first sentence, can you rephrase? I dont understand.

I know later on I wont remember the movie (like people go through dementia and forget they have loved ones). I also know one day I would be dead and the movie wont matter in the afterlife.

Thats why I watch the movie. Like family history, I take things from it. I remember as much as I can and live with these experiences to help with this life rather than the next.

Im learning to accept one day the season will end.

 

[bobhikes]

I would like to talk about materialism which is the whole notion held by many scientists. It is the whole idea that the brain produces consciousness and that once that dies out, you forever remain dead. There is no God and no afterlife. They say that one can have much meaning in their lives with no need for a belief in a god and an afterlife.

I don't see it that way at all. When I look at my mother or any other innocent person whom I admire and love, I see a person. I see a soul that can never be reduced to mere biology. It is something eternal so that when the biology dies off, the soul can live on and become one with the universe for all eternity.

I also believe that this is it no afterlife but realize I can not survive without others, and if I am not selective in who I am going to step during my survival I may get stepped on shorting my survival. I am also grateful that each of us has differing opinions, if we all believed the same things such as what is most important to life we would all be fighting for this one thing causing many more deaths and possibly the extinction of humans.

In short we can only survive with others
we can only survive if others do not want to wipe us out
we can only survive if we don't all want the same thing.

Don't need a god to know the Golden rules applies to life.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Psychologically, I can see why hoping for the afterlife helps. Logically, how can we claim we know something we never experienced. Even near death experiences can be explained psychologically and medically.

To put it point blank, we are biology. We are watching "just" a movie. We put value to that movie based on experience, bias, beliefs, how it affects us phisiologically, mentally, etc. But the movie will end.

Some of us live as if there will be reruns
Some life as if the plot will continue and continue
Some life as if its a marathoon season

How about living for that one experience of watching the movie? Take out the "as if" and say we dont know (even I dont know is holding on to a thread. My mother went intona car accident, was pronounced clinicaly dead, was put outside the hospital room awaiting to put where they place all deceased patients. My aunt saw her finger moved. And then my mother said, "I was out and never remembered a thing"

I used to have grand mal seizurez that knocked me out cold. I remembered nothing and was out all day.

The body And brain is something else.

Why should we not think our minds are conditioning us to want to live on as our body does the same until it cant no more.

Thats one thing I love about the Dharma. When you reach rebirth you know the nature of life: which is life/death the lotus. Once you slit through that, perfect extinction. As so translated in a sutra)

 

[Riverwolf]

Because it is like I have written before, once you are gone, you are nobody at all anymore.

But there's still others around.

 

[Skwim]

For the "materialist" the meaning in life lies in the journey. For the theist the meaning in life lies in the expectation, or in the case of Christians theology, the possible dread, of what follows life. And while "living in eternal bliss, no suffering, and just enjoying [one's] life and hobbies for all eternity" may sound kind of neat, it will actually entail an entire transformation of the self from that which existed during life. You really won't be you. Your personality will be one-dimensional. In fact, because of the very nature of eternal bliss the personality will be un-expressible. It will cease to exist. You will be an eternal, disembodied, Smiley Face


And nothing more

......................................................

................................................................."Hi, I'm MattMVS7."......................................................"Hi, I'm the kid who made fun of you in third grade.
..............................................................................................................................he..r..eFancy meeting you here in heaven. Know of any way out of this hell?"


.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Now we have two mechanisms of our brains. One mechanism just wants to live on forever in eternal happiness, wishes to never suffer, never wishes to be depressed, and just wishes to have a great time for all eternity. This is the survival mechanism. But we then have another mechanism of the brain. This mechanism would sacrifice its own feelings of happiness, would choose to live a life of depression, and would sacrifice its own life for the sake of things such as making the world a better place, having a different purpose, etc.

I only find joy and meaning in my life through the survival mechanism. So I would much rather believe in the eternal blissful afterlife to make myself hopeful and happy since that is all that matters to me. My hobbies and life itself was meant to be fully enjoyed and carried on in an eternal blissful life in which I can finally survive and be happy for all eternity. All my talents, no matter what they are and how great they are, are only pursued and are only of joy and meaning to me through the survival mechanism. There is no way I would ever choose to live life and pursue my hobbies through the other mechanism of my brain. That, to me, is an utterly miserable meaningless life which I am living in now unfortunately. It doesn't matter what my purpose is and how much of a better world I create. My life and hobbies are meant to be fully enjoyed and life is meant to be lived forever in eternal bliss with no more suffering in life.

 

[Riverwolf]

One mechanism just wants to live on forever in eternal happiness, wishes to never suffer, never wishes to be depressed, and just wishes to have a great time for all eternity.

Speak for yourself.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I think the desire for eternal happiness is tunnel-visioned.
If peace breeds stagnation, if ultimate bliss is ignorance, if utopia is an escape proof jail, why do you want to go to heaven? It's a common joke that heaven sounds terribly dull, but I think it's more than that. I think that the common view of heaven, or any afterlife described by lack of sickness, pain, death, sadness, supplanted by only one constant feeling and no opposing feeling to give it context would make humans not more than cattle.

Historically, human's greatest periods of discovery, invention, teamwork and, I think, happiness was during times of trial and tribulation. Without those, we lose focus, become lazy. And in heaven, you have an eternity to stupefy.

In any case, I do not appreciate life less for its brevity. I probably appreciate it more, because I don't treat it like a weigh station to the next life. I'm more motivated to make the most of this life, and to help people while they are here instead of just encouraging them to hope for things to get better after they're dead.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I think the desire for eternal happiness is tunnel-visioned.
If peace breeds stagnation, if ultimate bliss is ignorance, if utopia is an escape proof jail, why do you want to go to heaven? It's a common joke that heaven sounds terribly dull, but I think it's more than that. I think that the common view of heaven, or any afterlife described by lack of sickness, pain, death, sadness, supplanted by only one constant feeling and no opposing feeling to give it context would make humans not more than cattle.

Historically, human's greatest periods of discovery, invention, teamwork and, I think, happiness was during times of trial and tribulation. Without those, we lose focus, become lazy. And in heaven, you have an eternity to stupefy.

In any case, I do not appreciate life less for its brevity. I probably appreciate it more, because I don't treat it like a weigh station to the next life. I'm more motivated to make the most of this life, and to help people while they are here instead of just encouraging them to hope for things to get better after they're dead.

Actually, no one needs any suffering or death to make them any more of a person. Many years in the past when I was blissful and believed in the afterlife, I was completely happy with my family, did great things, and pursued my hobbies and it was the greatest life for me at the time. I was very expressive and there was a whole lot to me as a person. So the whole notion that you are nothing but a shallow person if you only find meaning in life through eternal bliss is false. I could also say the same thing about others. That them only finding meaning in their lives through suffering and self sacrifice is shallow as well. Neither view is shallow. Rather, it is all subjective.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Actually, no one needs any suffering or death to make them any more of a person. Many years in the past when I was blissful and believed in the afterlife, I was completely happy with my family, did great things, and pursued my hobbies and it was the greatest life for me at the time. I was very expressive and there was a whole lot to me as a person. So the whole notion that you are nothing but a shallow person if you only find meaning in life through eternal bliss is false. I could also say the same thing about others. That them only finding meaning in their lives through suffering and self sacrifice is shallow as well. Neither view is shallow. Rather, it is all subjective.

Both are shallow, actually. I never once said that you only find meaning in suffering but that life is meaningless without challenge, upsetting the status quo and, yes, perseverance through suffering. This is not to the exclusion of happiness, and indeed I had happiness listed right there in my post. BOTH happiness and sadness are necessary.

Someone who doesn't experience any suffering, sadness or pain is called manic, and it's an unbalanced, ungrounded state to be in. Don't take your Soma. You may experience some discomfort, but you'll be an emotionally mature adult with a better range and better insight.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Both are shallow, actually. I never once said that you only find meaning in suffering but that life is meaningless without challenge, upsetting the status quo and, yes, perseverance through suffering. This is not to the exclusion of happiness, and indeed I had happiness listed right there in my post. BOTH happiness and sadness are necessary.

Someone who doesn't experience any suffering, sadness or pain is called manic, and it's an unbalanced, ungrounded state to be in. Don't take your Soma. You may experience some discomfort, but you'll be an emotionally mature adult with a better range and better insight.

I would want to be manic for all eternity. It is a transcended state. It is like having all the power of the universe coursing through me that inspires me to compose. Depression, suffering, and a finite life do no such thing. They only make me miserable.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I would want to be manic for all eternity. It is a transcended state. It is like having all the power of the universe coursing through me that inspires me to compose. Depression, suffering, and a finite life do no such thing. They only make me miserable.

Then I think you have some growing up to do, no offense. Because there is no growth without challenge, only stagnation.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Then I think you have some growing up to do, no offense. Because there is no growth without challenge, only stagnation.

Growing up is all subjective. To me, eternal bliss is spiritual growth since it is filling my very spirit with life energy and I am never being hopelessly beaten down by any depression or suffering in my life. But to you, growing as a person is someone different. So that is how you define growing up. But this is how I personally see growing as a person. Stagnation is false with eternal bliss in my case. Like I said, I pursue my hobbies like neverbefore when I am manic.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Growing up is all subjective. To me, eternal bliss is spiritual growth since it is filling my very spirit with life energy and I am never being hopelessly beaten down by any depression or suffering in my life. But to you, growing as a person is someone different. So that is how you define growing up. But this is how I personally see growing as a person. Stagnation is false with eternal bliss in my case. Like I said, I pursue my hobbies like neverbefore when I am manic.

To expound on that, it's like an artist who doesn't want any critique or criticism of their art, because that can sometimes cause pain. But they'll also never know the problems with their art or see how much they could improve because they've put an artificial boundary around themselves.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

To expound on that, it's like an artist who doesn't want any critique or criticism of their art, because that can sometimes cause pain. But they'll also never know the problems with their art or see how much they could improve because they've put an artificial boundary around themselves.

I am fine with people criticizing my compositions. I would want to become a better composer and compose the types of music I want. But when it comes to how I live my life and pursue my hobbies, then I only pursue those things through the survival mechanism of my brain (as I explained earlier). It makes no sense to me how a person is better if they choose to have suffering and a finite life. I would make the best of this life just as good and even better through being happy. I could compose any type of music I want through my happiness whether they be dark, gothic, or even blissful compositions. So I see no need for suffering and death whatsoever.

 

[George-ananda]

To expound on that, it's like an artist who doesn't want any critique or criticism of their art, because that can sometimes cause pain. But they'll also never know the problems with their art or see how much they could improve because they've put an artificial boundary around themselves.

Improving for a short end only? I think Matt is saying there will soon be no Matt; just a Matt that grew a little for a short time and then nothing. Kind of depressing I would agree.

 

[McBell]

Because it is like I have written before, once you are gone, you are nobody at all anymore. The amount of "somebody" is only finite. So the only way to become more of a somebody (that is, the greatest person you can possibly be), then that would mean living on forever since you are somebody for all eternity. But for a person to be wasted away in the end makes me see them as not much of a person at all.

Except that that is simply not true.
Or are you saying that when you die all traces of your existence are wiped from the universe?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Improving for a short end only? I think Matt is saying there will soon be no Matt; just a Matt that grew a little for a short time and then nothing. Kind of depressing I would agree.

From my perspective to be emotionally neutered into nothing but mania is no different than losing yourself to death. You're no longer you, and the growth was just as temporary. But with far less meaning if you're just waiting for it to end and not making the most of it.