How on earth can the Qur'an be considered the perfect book?

[LuisDantas]

paarsurrey said: ↑
What is lacking in Quran in guidance "in ethical, moral and spiritual domains of human life"? Please
Regards

Acceptance and respect for sexual diversity. Ability to deal with perspectives other than strict monotheism. Acceptance of the very existence of people who are not meant to be monotheists. Encouragement for people to dare to think outside the box (or shall I say outside the book).

The very insistence on relying on scripture is very much self-limiting. A reasonably intelligent and honest person can and should do better than any literal scripture could possibly do. Personal knowledge and personal understanding matter. They matter quite a lot.

 

[LuisDantas]

Some interesting lights on the claim that the Qur'an can't be compared to other works, and that it has been supposedly been tried unsuccesfully to produce a comparable document.

http://skeptic-mind.blogspot.com.br/2011/09/produce-sura-like-it.html

 

[paarsurrey]

Acceptance and respect for sexual diversity. Ability to deal with perspectives other than strict monotheism. Acceptance of the very existence of people who are not meant to be monotheists. Encouragement for people to dare to think outside the box (or shall I say outside the book).
The very insistence on relying on scripture is very much self-limiting. A reasonably intelligent and honest person can and should do better than any literal scripture could possibly do. Personal knowledge and personal understanding matter. They matter quite a lot.

The purpose of ethical, moral and spiritual uplift of humans is directly linked with attaining nearness to G-d, or with being One with Him.
Nearness to G-d is not possible with the points mentioned by you. So, these are not valid points from this point of view and are not shortcomings.
Regards

 

[gnostic]

The purpose of ethical, moral and spiritual uplift of humans is directly linked with attaining nearness to G-d, or with being One with Him.
Nearness to G-d is not possible with the points mentioned by you. So, these are not valid points from this point of view and are not shortcomings.
Regards

That doesn't make the Qur'an have a quality of a "perfect book".

I don't think there is such thing as "perfect" book, because "perfect" is not really a quantifiable, and is highly subjective.

Neither the bible, nor the Qur'an would be what I would list as masterpieces.

They are very influential works, as it can be seen by their popularity, but popularity doesn't mean quality. And the writing styles are below average.

And the Qur'an is worse, because it is written in a very disorganised manners, often jumping from subject to subject, with very little to link them together.

The Qur'an is also often very vague, making it difficult to understand at times. That's probably why the hadiths were written, to explain or interpret some verses from the Qur'an that are not clear.

And if allah was the true author, then he is the one who is imperfect, with tendencies to praising himself in the third-person. Glorifying one's self is a very human ego: egotistic and petty.

 

[LuisDantas]

The purpose of ethical, moral and spiritual uplift of humans is directly linked with attaining nearness to G-d, or with being One with Him.
Nearness to G-d is not possible with the points mentioned by you. So, these are not valid points from this point of view and are not shortcomings.
Regards

Once more, I know you are being sincere, but this is just not something that I might consider conceding.

A God such as you describe is no God at all.

 

[paarsurrey]

That doesn't make the Qur'an have a quality of a "perfect book".
I don't think there is such thing as "perfect" book, because "perfect" is not really a quantifiable, and is highly subjective.
Neither the bible, nor the Qur'an would be what I would list as masterpieces.
They are very influential works, as it can be seen by their popularity, but popularity doesn't mean quality. And the writing styles are below average.
And the Qur'an is worse, because it is written in a very disorganised manners, often jumping from subject to subject, with very little to link them together.
The Qur'an is also often very vague, making it difficult to understand at times. That's probably why the hadiths were written, to explain or interpret some verses from the Qur'an that are not clear.
And if allah was the true author, then he is the one who is imperfect, with tendencies to praising himself in the third-person. Glorifying one's self is a very human ego: egotistic and petty.

Quran does not claim to be a book of poetry, or drama, or novel etc, so to compare it them is incorrect. Quran does not claim to be a text book of Chemistry, Mathematics, Physics etc, so comparing with them is wrong.
Quran tells the ways one has to adopt in ethical, moral and spiritual realms- the path that leads to G-d, that is its claim and it is truthful and it leads to that end perfectly. Right?
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Once more, I know you are being sincere, but this is just not something that I might consider conceding.
A God such as you describe is no God at all.

In your eyes, yes.
Regards

 

[use_your_brain]

That doesn't make the Qur'an have a quality of a "perfect book".

I don't think there is such thing as "perfect" book, because "perfect" is not really a quantifiable, and is highly subjective.

Neither the bible, nor the Qur'an would be what I would list as masterpieces.

They are very influential works, as it can be seen by their popularity, but popularity doesn't mean quality. And the writing styles are below average.

And the Qur'an is worse, because it is written in a very disorganised manners, often jumping from subject to subject, with very little to link them together.

The Qur'an is also often very vague, making it difficult to understand at times. That's probably why the hadiths were written, to explain or interpret some verses from the Qur'an that are not clear.

And if allah was the true author, then he is the one who is imperfect, with tendencies to praising himself in the third-person. Glorifying one's self is a very human ego: egotistic and petty.

Regardless to its alleged imperfection the Quran is sufficient to deliver the believers to reach the salvation and paradise in hereafter.
Just like you merely need the car light to guide your trip in the night you don't need any other light.

 

[paarsurrey]

That doesn't make the Qur'an have a quality of a "perfect book".
I don't think there is such thing as "perfect" book, because "perfect" is not really a quantifiable, and is highly subjective.
Neither the bible, nor the Qur'an would be what I would list as masterpieces.
They are very influential works, as it can be seen by their popularity, but popularity doesn't mean quality. And the writing styles are below average.
And the Qur'an is worse, because it is written in a very disorganised manners, often jumping from subject to subject, with very little to link them together.
The Qur'an is also often very vague, making it difficult to understand at times. That's probably why the hadiths were written, to explain or interpret some verses from the Qur'an that are not clear.
And if allah was the true author, then he is the one who is imperfect, with tendencies to praising himself in the third-person. Glorifying one's self is a very human ego: egotistic and petty.

One is simply wrong:
1. Quran is authored by G-d hence it has the same systems of its arrangement as the Universe has been arranged. If one understands the arrangements of Sun, Moon, Stars, Earth, Galaxies, Mountains ,rivers, deserts, valleys, forests, plains; then one can understand the arrangement of Quran; as all of them have been created by Him. If one does not understand the arrangement of the Universe and its units; then one is excused if he does not understand the arrangement of Quran.
2. The first Chapter of the Quran, which consists of the seven verses; it is the summary or essence of the Quran. The rest of the Quran explains it in detail. One could see this system easily in Quran.
3. The verses of Quran mostly have endings in some attributes of G-d; this inform us how different attributes do work in different circumstances.

Thanks

 

[gnostic]

2. The first Chapter of the Quran, which consists of the seven verses; it is the summary or essence of the Quran. The rest of the Quran explains it in detail. One could see this system easily in Quran.

The Qur'an, as do all other scriptures, only DESCRIBE, it never EXPLAIN.

DESCRIBE and EXPLAIN are not only different words, but have different meanings or contexts.

If it was to EXPLAIN, it would be more logical or provide more details, but also substantiate it with facts.

The Qur'an (as well as the Bible and other scriptures) is never concern with facts and never provide facts; it only warrant faith and belief, so (so in the case with religion and scripture) it would only describe some characteristics, qualities or events that encourage belief.

Do you understand what I am saying, paarsurrey?

To give you an example. I don't remember the chapter and verse numbers, so I am paraphrasing what I remember, okay?

One of the verses was describing the sky that provide light, thus the stars, sun and moon, and that verse equate the sun with "lamp". Do you know the verse I am talking about here?

What I am getting at, is the Qur'an make use of metaphors and similes, and allegories and fables.

Metaphors and similes are used to describe things with other things that are not related - in this case lamp and sun. Back then (Muhammad's time), they used lamps to provide light, and the sources of these lights were fire that you would burn in the lamps. But the description isn't really right, scientifically.

But judging by this verse alone (as far as I can remember it), it draw distinction between the Sun and stars, when actual fact, the Sun is a star, and apparently the Qur'an didn't know that.

But even more importantly, it describes lights coming from the stars, moon and sun (as a lamp), but the Qur'an doesn't explain the HOW.

The Qur'an doesn't describe how the stars and sun make lights? Or why there are heat from the Sun?

Did you know there are no fire in the Sun and other stars? Fire is the result of chemical reaction of chemical combustion, like fuel, and oxygen. For fire to burn, it required oxygen. There is only a fraction of oxygen (less than 1%) in our sun; most of the elements in our star is hydrogen. The heat, energy and light that come from the sun, because lot of energy radiate from fusion of two hydrogen atoms into helium atom. This fusion of lighter elements (hydrogen) into heavier elements (helium) is called stellar nucleosynthesis.

If the Qur'an want to EXPLAIN, it wouldn't use similes or metaphors. If the Qur'an wanted to explain, then it would explain how there is light from sun, stars and moon.

I would be far more impress with the Qur'an if it did "explain".

 

[LuisDantas]

In your eyes, yes.
Regards

Precisely. Why would a true monotheistic God fail to be properly moral?

 

[gnostic]

3. The verses of Quran mostly have endings in some attributes of G-d; this inform us how different attributes do work in different circumstances.

And there lies the silliness of the verses in the Qur'an.

The use of attributes for God, in which if Allah is indeed the author, praising or glorifying himself, are empty and petty gestures, BECAUSE they don't really add anything to the verse.

Why would God brag about himself...in a silly 3rd person (that if God is the author)?

 

[use_your_brain]

Quran is the perfect tool to gain salvation and paradise in hereafter.

 

[gnostic]

Quran is the perfect tool to gain salvation and paradise in hereafter.

Yes, I got that, the first time you had mentioned salvation in the previous reply. I am just not interested in the hereafter or paradise, because paradise have no appeal to me.

 

[use_your_brain]

Yes, I got that, the first time you had mentioned salvation in the previous reply. I am just not interested in the hereafter or paradise, because paradise have no appeal to me.

Then you don't need the Quran to guide you either.

 

[gnostic]

Then you don't the Quran to guide you either.

For the "hereafter"?

No...I see no reason wanting to live forever.

There are no values to life where you don't die.

Does resurrection involve me to endlessly worshipping God?

Do I have to listen to angels or resurrected prophets preaching to me endlessly?

Do I have sing to or listen to others glorifying God?​

If I have to become a drone or hear others droning about God, then it would be a very boring existence and it is not "living". And it wouldn't be much of paradise if all I do is worship God.

What can you do in heaven? More importantly, what can you do that would have meaning?

 

[use_your_brain]

For the "hereafter"?

No...I see no reason wanting to live forever.

There are no values to life where you don't die.

Does resurrection involve me to endlessly worshipping God?

Do I have to listen to angels or resurrected prophets preaching to me endlessly?

Do I have sing to or listen to others glorifying God?​

If I have to become a drone or hear others droning about God, then it would be a very boring existence and it is not "living". And it wouldn't be much of paradise if all I do is worship God.

What can you do in heaven? More importantly, what can you do that would have meaning?

There will be no longer any kind of worshiping in hereafter. No matter one will pray in hereafter the God will not account it.

 

[gnostic]

There will be no longer any kind of worshiping in hereafter. No matter one will pray in hereafter the God will not account it.

Then what do you do? Or what can you do?

 

[use_your_brain]

Then what do you do? Or what can you do?

In hell the people will be tortured 'forever'.
In heaven the inhabitants will enjoy the happiness life by walking around, lazing in the park, tasting foods, beverages and any kind of pleasurable activities including having sex. Without praying, fasting, bowing, prostating, and any kind of prayers except praising little bit. Since they are haram in heaven. Yes praying is haram in heaven.
The single inhabitant will belong to the great kingdom alone

The last man from hell who will enter paradise/heaven, Allah will say to him, ‘Enter Paradise,’ and when he will enter it, Allah will say to him, ‘Wish for anything.’ So he will ask his Lord, and he will wish for a great number of things, for Allah Himself will remind him to wish for certain things by saying, ‘(Wish for) so-and-so.’ When there is nothing more to wish for, Allah will say, ‘This is for you, and ten times as much,'

 

[muhammad_isa]

..And it wouldn't be much of paradise if all I do is worship God..

According to Muhammad Asad, on his notes in The Message of the Qur'an translation on 51:56,

Thus, the innermost purpose of the creation of all rational beings is their cognition of the existence of Allah and, hence, their conscious willingness to conform their own existence to whatever they may perceive of His will and plan: and it is this twofold concept of cognition and willingness that gives the deepest meaning to what the Quran describes as "worship". As the next verse shows, this spiritual call does not arise from any supposed "need" on the part of the Creator, who is self-sufficient and infinite in His power, but is designed as an instrument for the inner development of the worshiper, who, by the act of his conscious self-surrender to the all-pervading Creative Will, may hope to come closer to an understanding of that Will and, thus closer to Allah Himself.

We can see that in Islam, 'worship' (ibaada) does not literally mean exhaltation.