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How should the Christian Church treat homosexuals?

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vnct

vnct

Member
9Westy9 said:
Ironically the word for homosexual only applies to guys and says nothing about lesbians.
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paul refers to both men and women below:

Romans 1:26-27
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

Also we should notice that these are Paul's words not Jesus words.
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correct.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
yourgraceisenough said:
the bible sets rules for slavery to help and protect slaves...
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In what way does "slaves obey your masters" protect slaves?

Perhaps you don't know that the power over slaves is absolute - the men, women, and children are sexually available to their owner in any way the owner sees fit -- and the owner can lend the slave to whomever he wishes. That's just one abuse.

If one slave kills a citizen, all the slaves in the household must be killed by law.

The NT offers nothing for slaves to resist to any abuse whatsoever, be it violent or non-violent. There's no philosophy of freedom in the NT that was intended by the author to improve the condition of slaves.

There are a few commands for masters to be just - but since the masters do not have to relinquish any control at all, they are free to define justice as they wish. And they did.
 
yourgraceisenough

yourgraceisenough

Active Member
angellous_evangellous said:
In what way does "slaves obey your masters" protect slaves?

Perhaps you don't know that the power over slaves is absolute - the men, women, and children are sexually available to their owner in any way the owner sees fit -- and the owner can lend the slave to whomever he wishes. That's just one abuse.

If one slave kills a citizen, all the slaves in the household must be killed by law.

The NT offers nothing for slaves to resist to any abuse whatsoever, be it violent or non-violent. There's no philosophy of freedom in the NT that was intended by the author to improve the condition of slaves.

There are a few commands for masters to be just - but since the masters do not have to relinquish any control at all, they are free to define justice as they wish. And they did.
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perhaps the fact that some people in those days gave themselves up or family up as slaves to survive in service of a master rather than die trying to feed themselves...
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
yourgraceisenough said:
perhaps the fact that some people in those days gave themselves up or family up as slaves to survive in service of a master rather than die trying to feed themselves...
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Yes, that's relevant to your point.:facepalm:

That doesn't mean that the NT did anything to improve the condition of slaves, as you incorrectly asserted.
 
9Westy9

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
yourgraceisenough said:
original and basic rule one man and one woman, fill the earth and subdue it, quite simple that maintained through the bible...

the bible sets rules for slavery to help and protect slaves...

the OT speaks about the one who will fulfill the prophercies and be the messiah...

there you go no problem...:)
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Why does the bible abolish OT laws and not homosexuality? As in all OT laws. Including the ones about stoning children to death
 
Onlybygrace

Onlybygrace

Member
9Westy9 said:
Ironically the word for homosexual only applies to guys and says nothing about lesbians. Also we should notice that these are Paul's words not Jesus words.
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you always say this Phil , but we always explain that whatever is written in the bible is from God through speaking to the prophets :rolleyes:
 
9Westy9

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
vnct said:
paul refers to both men and women below:

Romans 1:26-27
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
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Interesting response here Homosexuality and Romans 1:26-27 - all viewpoints. It suggests that it's only former heterosexuals that are being referred to
 
work in progress

work in progress

Well-Known Member
9Westy9 said:
we could be :p
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And I wouldn't expect much to change even after another hundred pages! Fundamentalists who are following rigid rule-based systems of ethics fear that any alterations will threaten their whole order and bring it crashing down. They would rather inflict misery and suffering on others than change the rules.

Likely the only way a fundamentalist changes their approach is if they are confronted with a member of an outside despised group...whether it's a despised religious minority like Muslims, or a despised ethic or racial group, once they get to know someone on a personal level from the despised group...in this case - gays, then denying them rights and condemning them all to hell becomes a little more difficult.

I wouldn't really have any concern about what fundamentalists think or don't think about homosexuals if it wasn't for the tragic fact that they are going to have the same percentage of children who turn out to be gay as the rest of the population. At its worst it has led to high suicide rates among teens growing up in fundie land who think they may be gay....and at it's best it leads to the long line of closeted homosexuals who have varying degrees of success with living in denial....hello Marcus Bachmann!
 
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