It's one thing to identify as "X", it's quite another to claim that you ARE "X".
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How the Law (doesn't really), define "gender identity"
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
It's one thing to identify as something, it's quite another to demand you ARE that something, and entitled to all the accoutrements associated with being that something.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
The Indian Supreme Court is interested in just one thing, "Do they enjoy all human rights (as mandated in our Constitution) without discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity?" To protect these rights is the responsibility of the Supreme Court.
The individual's claim is to be accepted, no questions (self-identification).
If it were only a matter of equal treatment under the law, we wouldn't be having these types of conversations. Unfortunately, it goes waaaaaay beyond equal treatment under the law.
It's one thing to accept their claim as what they believe; it's quite another to enact laws and policies that categorizes them according to what they believe. I don't know what goes on in India, but in the USA, if a 40 year old man wants to identify as a 9 year old boy, and wants to get a 9 year old girlfriend, The law will not allow it regardless of what is going on inside of his head
McBell
Unbound
How is that a definition?
Let alone a definition of 'gender identity'?
As I said before, those who separate gender from sex has made gender meaningless. For them, there is no definition
McBell
Unbound
So instead of offering up a definition, you run off into left field?
Let me put it this way. MY definition of Gender is as follows
Men/Boys- biological human males
Women/Girls- Biological human females.
For me, gender is based on sexual biology, even there are those who disagree. My point is; for those who disagree, gender is meaningless thus no definition. Hope that clears things up.
McBell
Unbound
Nope.
Does not clear up anything...
Cause the definition asked for was for 'gender identity'
Care to try again?
Obviously gender identity is the gender you identify as, but my initial response was not about the definition of gender identity, it was refuting the idea that just because you identify as a specific gender, that does not mean you are that gender; or should be treated as that gender.
McBell
Unbound
Finally, a direct answer to a direct question
Which is interesting given that the question your sermon was in reply to was "what is your definition of 'gender identity'"
Except you did not 'refute' anything...
What time is it?
I disagree. By refute, I mean to deny the accuracy of the claim. I made my disagreement very clear. Just like; if I am 40 years old, but I identify as an 8 year old, that doesn't mean I am 8 and should be legally treated as an 8 year old.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Very likely, gender may one day be meaningless for one reason or another. For instance, medical science very likely will progress to the point that sex changes are indistinguishable from natural born, and maybe even retain or enhance reproductive and sexual functionality.
Given that a good portion of traditional gender identity was designed to advertise biological sex and assign roles that were usually not related to biological sex, the role of "gender" will likely change and may disappear altogether in a secular world that doesn't need to advertise genitalia.
That doesn't mean I think it should. Gender roles seem to have a social component that adds a flavor to life similar to art. And transgender folk often seem to require gender-affirmation. This suggests there are some biological factors that influence psychology.
But even the biological basis of the psychological feeling of gender can't be disentangled from our socialization, since gender is inherently based on interaction between humans.
In the end, I see all criticism of gender identity coming down to either wanting folks to advertise their genitals, a religious belief, or a distrust of what is perceived as a dualism between mind and body.
McBell
Unbound
gender (n.)
c. 1300, "kind, sort, class, a class or kind of persons or things sharing certain traits," from Old French gendre, genre "kind, species; character; gender" (12c., Modern French genre), from stem of Latin genus (genitive generis) "race, stock, family; kind, rank, order; species," also "(male or female) sex," from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The unetymological -d- is a phonetic accretion in Old French (see D). Also used in Latin to translate Aristotle's Greek grammatical term genos. The grammatical sense is attested in English from late 14c. Jespersen ("Philosophy of Grammar," 1924) defines grammatical gender by reference to the Indo-European distinction of masculine, feminine, neuter, "whether the division be based on the natural division into two sexes, or on that between animate and inanimate, or on something else."
The "male-or-female sex" sense of the word is attested in English from early 15c. As sex (n.) took on erotic qualities in 20c., gender came to be the usual English word for "sex of a human being," in which use it was at first regarded as colloquial or humorous. Later often in feminist writing with reference to social attributes as much as biological qualities; this sense first attested 1963. Gender-bender is from 1977, popularized from 1980, with reference to pop star David Bowie.
McBell
Unbound
Besides male and female, there are 72 other genders, which include the following:
Agender: A person who does not identify themselves with or experience any gender. Agender people are also called null-gender, genderless, gendervoid, or neutral gender.
Abimegender: Associated with being profound, deep, and infinite. The term abimegender may be used alone or in combination with other genders.
Adamas gender: A gender that is indefinable or indomitable. People identifying with this gender refuse to be categorized in any particular gender identity.
Aerogender: Also called evaisgender, this gender identity changes according to one’s surroundings.
Aesthetigender: Also called aesthetgender, it is a type of gender identity derived from aesthetics.
Affectugender: This is based on the person’s mood swings or fluctuations.
Agenderflux: A person with this gender identity is mostly agender with brief shifts of belonging to other gender types.
Alexigender: The person has a fluid gender identity between more than one type of gender although they cannot name the genders they feel fluid in.
Aliusgender: This gender identity stands apart from existing social gender constructs. It means having a strong specific gender identity that is neither male nor female.
Amaregender: Having a gender identity that changes depending on the person one is emotionally attached to.
Ambigender: Having two specific gender identities simultaneously without any fluidity or fluctuations.
Ambonec: The person identifies themselves as both man and woman and yet does not belong to either.
Amicagender: A gender-fluid identity where a person changes their gender depending on the friends they have.
Androgyne: A person feels a combination of feminine and masculine genders.
Anesigender: The person feels close to a specific type of gender despite being more comfortable in closely identifying themselves with another gender.
Angenital: The person desires to be without any primary sexual characteristics although they do not identify themselves as genderless.
Anogender: The gender identity fades in and out in intensity but always comes back to the same gendered feeling.
Anongender: The person has a gender identity but does not label it or would prefer to not have a label.
Antegender: A protean gender that can be anything but is formless and motionless.
Anxiegender: This gender identity has anxiety as its prominent characteristic.
Apagender: The person has apathy or a lack of feelings toward one's gender identity.
Apconsugender: It means knowing what are not the characteristics of gender but not knowing what are its characteristics. Thus, a person hides its primary characteristics from the individual.
Astergender: The person has a bright and celestial gender identity.
Astral gender: Having a gender identity that feels to be related to space.
Autigender: Having a gender identity that feels to be closely related to being autistic.
Autogender: Having a gender experience that is deeply connected and personal to oneself.
Axigender: A gender identity that is between the two extremes of agender and any other type of gender. Both the genders are experienced one at a time without any overlapping. The two genders are described as on the opposite ends of an axis.
Bigender: Having two gender identities at the same or different times.
Biogender: Having a gender that is closely related to nature.
Blurgender: Also called gender fuss, blurgender means having more than one gender identities that blur into each other so that no particular type of gender identity is clear.
Boyflux: The person identifies themselves as male, but they experience varying degrees of male identity. This may range from feeling agender to completely male.
Burstgender: Frequent bursts of intense feelings quickly move to the initial calm stage.
Caelgender: This gender identity shares the qualities or aesthetics of outer space.
Cassgender: It is associated with the feelings of considering the gender irrelevant or unimportant.
Cassflux: There is a fluctuating intensity of irrelevance toward gender.
Cavusgender: The person feels close to one gender when depressed and to another when not depressed.
Cendgender: The gender identity changes from one gender to its opposite.
Ceterogender: It is a nonbinary gender where the person has a specific masculine, feminine or neutral feelings.
Ceterofluid: Although the person is a ceterogender, their identity keeps fluctuating between different genders.
Cisgender: Being closely related to the gender assigned at birth during the entire life.
Cloudgender: The person’s gender cannot be comprehended or understood due to depersonalization and derealization disorder.
Collgender: Various genders are present at the same time in the individual.
Colorgender: In this category, colors are used to describe gender, for example, pink gender or black gender.
Commogender: The person knows that they are not cisgender yet continues to identify as one for a while.
Condigender: The person feels their gender only under specific circumstances.
Deliciagender: Associated with the feeling of having multiple genders but preferring one over the other.
Demifluid: Having multiple genders, some fluid while others are static.
Demiflux: A combination of multiple genders with some genders static, whereas others fluctuating in intensity.
Demigender: The individual has partial traits of one gender and the rest of the other gender.
Domgender: The individual has multiple genders with one dominating over the rest.
Duragender: Having more than one gender with one lasting longer than the others.
Egogender: It is a personal type of gender identified by the individual alone. It is based on the person’s experience within the self.
Epicene: It is associated with a strong feeling of not being able to relate to any of the two genders of the binary gender or both of the binary gender characteristics.
Esspigender: The individual relates their gender identity with spirits.
Exgender: The denial to identify with any gender on the gender spectrum.
Existigender: The person’s gender identity exists only when they make conscious efforts to realize it.
Femfluid: The person is fluid or fluctuating regarding the feminine genders.
Femgender: A nonbinary gender identity that is feminine.
Fluidflux: It means to be fluid between two or more genders with a fluctuation in the intensity of those genders.
Gemigender: The person has two genders that are opposite yet they flux and work together.
Genderblank: It is closely related to a blank space.
Genderflow: The gender identity is fluid between infinite feelings.
Genderfluid: The person does not consistently adhere to one fixed gender and may have many genders.
Genderfuzz: More than one gender is blurred together.
Genderflux: The gender fluctuates in intensity.
Genderpuck: The person resists to fit in societal norms concerning genders.
Genderqueer: The individual blurs the preconceived boundaries of gender in relation to the gender binary or having just one gender type.
Gender witched: The person is inclined toward the notion of having one gender but does not know which.
Girlflux: The individual identifies themselves as a female but with varying intensities of female identities.
Healgender: A gender identity that gives the person peace, calm, and positivity.
Mirrorgender: Changing one's gender type based on the people surrounding.
Omnigender: Having or experiencing all genders.
I think for those who insist gender has nothing to do with biological sex, it is already meaningless. That’s why some of the most brilliant minds in the world can’t give a straight answer when asked “what is a woman”
I don’t think it matters how good they get at making a man look like a woman via surgery, biological sex is based on sex chromosomes not sex organs.
I don’t agree that gender was ever used to advertise sex organs. And as far as gender roles, those were usually sexist stereotypes that we have been getting away from all of these years.
Again; the idea that girls only play with dolls and boys only play with trucks, that men have STEM careers, and women have nurse or teaching jobs are ideas considered sexist and outdated. Gender roles isn’t a flavor of life, they’re sexist stereotypes.
IMO it’s more about attempting to control how other people think than anything else
Who decided that there were 72 different genders?
McBell
Unbound
No idea.
What is even more interesting is that different sources have a different number of genders and their lists are not even close to being the same.
McBell
Unbound
Post #114 reveals this is nothing more than your own prejudices being revealed.
Yeah; almost like they're just makin' it all up as they go along