How to convert a Hindu

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

It's complicated as a christian growing up, I was taught those who don't believe in Jesus go to hell. It didn't matter if you were a good person, all that mattered was believing. I use to have nightmares growing up about that I would go to hell when Jesus came. Then as I got older, I started learning about my beliefs, or more specifically the source that it was coming from. It was then in my view I saw that many "Christians" follow what's called "Pauline Christianity" As much of what is called the New Testament is written by Paul, and those who would later follow in his steps, it adheres to a process of conversion.

To me though, when reading through Jesus's words I came to see salvation differently. I do not mean to spread scripture to start a flame but:
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

The process of "eternal life" was through loving ones neighbor and loving god. Not to mention that Jesus asked "how do you read it?" Which to me implied that Jesus understood that the mans interpretation of the law could be different. But that was simple enough.

Much of Christianity now though stands in the ideal that the world will perish and be doomed and so we must believe in Jesus. But in scripture what Jesus wants us to believe and what he stood for seems to be pretty clear right there.

That's my Christian perspective too why the conversion process is wrong. Rather than teaching people to convert we should be teaching them to love their neighbors, to love themselves, and to love God.

I am currently dating a Hindu girl, and it is through this it has brought back to me a large amount of my interest in my faith, I had always questioned the logic behind much of the Christian dogmas. I can always feel that nagging in my head from what I learned growing up, but I push forward. I would not want her to convert for me, partly because I feel it is unfair and partly because I worry that if I did get to the point where we married and for some reason I was to perish that she would be outcast by her family/society because of her choice.

My goal has been to find a middle ground for both of us, she is not religious and neither am I, but I do not want either of us to abandoned the lessons we have learned, but it's finding a way to forge a new path. There are things that I could never do "pray to a Hindu deity" mainly because it would hold no meaning for me to do so, but I can go into a temple, close my eyes and meditate on God. She has offered as well to attend church with me, knowing how bias and intolerant most churches are I have begun to look for churches that focus on Universal-ism and Unitarianism, as the are open to all faiths and preach that message of Love that Jesus gave.

I of course fear constantly that our families will be the decisive issue. My parents struggle with the idea especially my mother my father seems open to the possibility out of respect. Her parents are also currently struggling with it. While we both are willing to fight to make it work and I can go against my parents because they will support me, I do not want to put her in a position to make such a choice.

It amazes me though that to this day, not only do our racial backgrounds separate us but our religions do as well. Regardless though i am glad to have met her, even if she does not become my wife, I am certain that I will come out a better man because of her.

 

[Vinayaka]

I am currently dating a Hindu girl, and it is through this it has brought back to me a large amount of my interest in my faith, I had always questioned the logic behind much of the Christian dogmas.

My goal has been to find a middle ground for both of us, she is not religious and neither am I, but I do not want either of us to abandoned the lessons we have learned, but it's finding a way to forge a new path.

So do you have any suggestions for us Hindus to stop the violence of conversion? (This is the Hindu DIR)

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

I wanted to give my insight into why Christians feel this compulsion to convert especially the evangelicals.

I would ask them where Jesus says that conversion is the path to salvation (they will mostly likely quote John 14 "Jesus said I am the way..."), A tendency by Christians who seek conversion is to read one part and leave that as proof.

I would follow up with this quote "15 “If you love me, keep my commands." fire with fire if you will

Then show them that verse that I had put up to show what that commandment is.

But usually it will be The Gospel of John that they quote to you, in order to persuade you to convert.

The violence though, unfortunately is not something that will change. The nature of those who brought the bible to people was crude and a time of violence and imperial conquest. A sword in one hand a bible in the other...that still exists sadly.

The only thing I can say is that if they really push, tell them you love God and you love your neighbor, and why can they not do the same? If it takes conversion for them to love you, then they do not truly love you and cannot truly love themselves.

 

[Vinayaka]

Well, I'm glad you'd stand up for human rights.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

I could never speak in absolutes. At times I wonder if when I reach a certain age if my faith will be the same.

The way of life that has been put before me was Christianity. I do not consider myself elected, or chosen. It was what I was born into, I did not choose it as I chose to be black. However while my faith may indeed change one day, the moral lessons that I have learn through the teachings of Jesus and the source of strength that it's given me will allow me to keep going.

I believe that God has revealed this truth to everyone in Gods own way. Some may hear it louder than others.

 

[Vinayaka]

I could never speak in absolutes. At times I wonder if when I reach a certain age if my faith will be the same.

If you're growing, it won't be. I don't mean the name of the faith or religion, but you won't be the same. Stagnation is the antithesis of character development. Most of us like to believe we are evolving, maturing, growing, at least in small ways.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Thank you. I did not mean to hijack the thread...Just to give insight to what goes through the mind of a Christian.

 

[Vinayaka]

Thank you. I did not mean to hijack the thread...Just to give insight to what goes through the mind of a Christian.

Yeah, I think most of us who are trained to watch out for it pretty much know. It's convert those wayward pagans any way possible, using deception, fake friendship, money, bribery, and force if necessary.

But that's just the tougher ones to swallow. Many don't really care about that agenda that much, and do spend time improving themselves.

 

[Kalidas]

I wanted to give my insight into why Christians feel this compulsion to convert especially the evangelicals.

I would ask them where Jesus says that conversion is the path to salvation (they will mostly likely quote John 14 "Jesus said I am the way..."), A tendency by Christians who seek conversion is to read one part and leave that as proof.

I would follow up with this quote "15 “If you love me, keep my commands." fire with fire if you will

Then show them that verse that I had put up to show what that commandment is.

But usually it will be The Gospel of John that they quote to you, in order to persuade you to convert.

The violence though, unfortunately is not something that will change. The nature of those who brought the bible to people was crude and a time of violence and imperial conquest. A sword in one hand a bible in the other...that still exists sadly.

The only thing I can say is that if they really push, tell them you love God and you love your neighbor, and why can they not do the same? If it takes conversion for them to love you, then they do not truly love you and cannot truly love themselves.

Another good one. Ask them to find a scripture where Jesus actually ever tried to actively convert followers. Bet they can't, then remind them to be a good Christian is to be "Christ like"

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Yeah, I think most of us who are trained to watch out for it pretty much know. It's convert those wayward pagans any way possible, using deception, fake friendship, money, bribery, and force if necessary.

But that's just the tougher ones to swallow. Many don't really care about that agenda that much, and do spend time improving themselves.

The intentions are usually good. If you were taught that majority of the world was going to burn in hell-fire, altruistically it would be your goal to try to save them from that.

The methodology used...on the other hand. From what little I have learned about Hinduism growing up (It's still hard for my western centric brain to understand), there is room to follow/integrate Christian Tenets as Hinduism cannot be defined as just a religion but is more of a way of life. Much of what Christianity taught could easily have been absorbed into the culture. Given my current situation that is something I am looking towards, to be able to combine my christian faith with Hindu understanding...whether I fail, succeed, or ultimately give up I await to see.

But the methodology that Christians have used (that of conquest), rather than that of learning...has created a schism and many view Christians as manipulators who have their own agenda.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

=FranklinMichaelV.3;3370783]The intentions are usually good. If you were taught that majority of the world was going to burn in hell-fire, altruistically it would be your goal to try to save them from that.

Sorry for butting in the conversation, but i have a view on this.

I have heard this "Good Intention" statement from different people. To me the good intention part is ok, but when someone out of good intentions tries to save another person from hell by converting the them into a religion of which the hell theory is a part of and most likely created by God of that religion sounds a bit hypocritical.

I mean those who try to save others from hell first should think of who is putting those other people in hell in the first place.

ill give a analogy (i think that's the right word). it like me throwing away my Dog into the gutter, and one of my friends runs to get it back to me.

Do you understand what i mean.

The methodology used...on the other hand. From what little I have learned about Hinduism growing up (It's still hard for my western centric brain to understand), there is room to follow/integrate Christian Tenets as Hinduism cannot be defined as just a religion but is more of a way of life. Much of what Christianity taught could easily have been absorbed into the culture. Given my current situation that is something I am looking towards, to be able to combine my christian faith with Hindu understanding...whether I fail, succeed, or ultimately give up I await to see.

I think you have it the other way around, i think much of what Hinduism teaches has been absorbed into the Christian thought and culture over the past few centuries. To me personally Christianity offers nothing new, nothing worth while or nothing to advance spirituality, nothing compared to what Hinduism has offered me, but that is my opinion.

I dont know about your partner, but if she is well aware of her religion she (Like many devout Hindus) will probably stick with her religion, but hay that is again just my view.

But the methodology that Christians have used (that of conquest), rather than that of learning...has created a schism and many view Christians as manipulators who have their own agenda.

Well yes, but this also goes back to the idea of "Having Good intentions" idea, isent that really personal agenda as well.

No offence to anyone.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Sorry for butting in the conversation, but i have a view on this.

I have heard this "Good Intention" statement from different people. To me the good intention part is ok, but when someone out of good intentions tries to save another person from hell by converting the them into a religion of which the hell theory is a part of and most likely created by God of that religion sounds a bit hypocritical.

I mean those who try to save others from hell first should think of who is putting those other people in hell in the first place.

ill give a analogy (i think that's the right word). it like me throwing away my Dog into the gutter, and one of my friends runs to get it back to me.

Do you understand what i mean.



I think you have it the other way around, i think much of what Hinduism teaches has been absorbed into the Christian thought and culture over the past few centuries. To me personally Christianity offers nothing new, nothing worth while or nothing to advance spirituality, nothing compared to what Hinduism has offered me, but that is my opinion.

I dont know about your partner, but if she is well aware of her religion she (Like many devout Hindus) will probably stick with her religion, but hay that is again just my view.



Well yes, but this also goes back to the idea of "Having Good intentions" idea, isent that really personal agenda as well.

No offence to anyone.

Well to the standard Christian fundamentalist it would be that "god does not send anyone to hell, people choose to" regardless if there is any basisl for hell in the bible in the first place.

For me I stopped believing in hell, because if my whole reason for believing in God was out of fear of punishment than my belief was not sincere. It certainly makes it harder in Christianity, but it also meant and means that I need to focus on what it means to be a "Christian".

I had heard from someoneWhat Christianity had offered at the time in the western world, was "answers". It rose during a time of much philosophical thinking in the western world and provided answers to questions such as "why is there evil?" It was also the poor mans religion it taught that God loved you regardless of your station and that it did not matter where you came from, what you were born into, you were deserving of grace like anyone else.

You're right in that it did not offering anything particularly new but it provided it to more than one group. It came off as a religion that was not exclusive to one particular set of people.

Like most things though, it soon became the philosophical battle grounds for intellectuals and the doctrines of those who could yell loudest became the foundation for many of the beliefs held now.

 

[Vinayaka]

The intentions are usually good.

That may well be, but the results are horrific. Split unhappy families, confusion, loss of faith for others, and much more are the negative results. The negatives outweigh the positives by 10 to 1.

 

[Vinayaka]

I had heard from someoneWhat Christianity had offered at the time in the western world, was "answers". It rose during a time of much philosophical thinking in the western world and provided answers to questions such as "why is there evil?"

It was also the poor mans religion it taught that God loved you regardless of your station and that it did not matter where you came from, what you were born into, you were deserving of grace like anyone else.

It came off as a religion that was not exclusive to one particular set of people.

I believe you're starting to argue for the superiority of Christianity. This is not a debate thread. It's for Hindus to discuss the problem of conversion tactics.

Hinduism provides us with all the answers. We do not need Christianity. Not one iota of it. Hinduism is for everyone. Hinduism is not exclusive at all, although there may be individuals who misinterpret stuff.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Not superiority at all. Explanation for the way the mind of Christian evangilicals work. There is a reason why I put answers in quotations and referred to the western world. To be able to combat the attempts at conversion it is important to understand where they are coming from, the rationale must be understood and from understanding (not accepting) you can voice why you feel they are at fault for their attempts. Know your enemy and you need not fear a 1000 battles.

 

[Vinayaka]

"there is room to follow/integrate Christian Tenets as Hinduism cannot be defined as just a religion but is more of a way of life." (Your statement.) My friend, this is the trick the Catholics have been using. It is subtle, and poses a great threat to Hinduism. The first thing is to convince Hindus that there really is no problem with a 'little bit' of Christianity as Hinduism is just so vast. After that first bit is planted, then they can watch the seed grow. It may surprise you, but the Catholic church in India has historically been the most successful by far, in part due to this subtleness.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Is Hinduism just a religion? The tenets i spoke of are related more on how to treat your fellow man. Not the dogmatic doctrines of what you should believe, nor in the "sacrifice of Jesus". In my eyes there is much that Christianity would have learned from Hindiusm and while that would have still be there path it would have certainly helped increase their relationship with God. I do apologize if I am coming off though as pushing. As I said my mind is still westernized and so I see it more clearly than I can see other sides. I will excuse myself from this so i do not offend anyone

 

[Vinayaka]

Not the dogmatic doctrines of what you should believe, nor in the "sacrifice of Jesus". In my eyes there is much that Christianity would have learned from Hindiusm and while that would have still be there path it would have certainly helped increase their relationship with God. I do apologize if I am coming off though as pushing. As I said my mind is still westernized and so I see it more clearly than I can see other sides. I will excuse myself from this so i do not offend anyone

Which Christians don't believe in Jesus? (sacrifice of? , I'm not even sure what that means) Isn't that an essential teaching of Christianity?

My advice to Christians who are interested in Hinduism in a sincere way is to drop the Christianity first. In marriages, don't you need to divorce before you can remarry? So I'd be more than happy to answer questions from any Christian regarding our faith, if they're actually interested.

It seems to me that if you need to supplement your religion with teachings from other religions, you're not all that happy in your own. It's not giving you everything you need. In any traditional sampradaya of Hinduism, it gives you far more than you can handle. That's another reason why it might take more than one lifetime.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Which Christians don't believe in Jesus? (sacrifice of? , I'm not even sure what that means) Isn't that an essential teaching of Christianity?

My advice to Christians who are interested in Hinduism in a sincere way is to drop the Christianity first. In marriages, don't you need to divorce before you can remarry? So I'd be more than happy to answer questions from any Christian regarding our faith, if they're actually interested.

It seems to me that if you need to supplement your religion with teachings from other religions, you're not all that happy in your own. It's not giving you everything you need. In any traditional sampradaya of Hinduism, it gives you far more than you can handle. That's another reason why it might take more than one lifetime.

Unitarianism comes to mind, most do not believe in a divine Christ or that Christs death on the cross is necessary for salvation. Christanity is very fractured due to dogma. I have found the messages of Christ to be what resounds for me. But certain things like "hell, heaven, divinity, salvation by faith" are not universally accepted by Christians. The Catholic Church for instance falls into the group that believe these things...though its released statements at time that may seem contradictory. But again I do not want to interrupt any further.

 

[charlesischuck]

religion is like a disease if it does not convert (which every religion does) it dies like every single one of the thousands of other religions that everyone though was the "one" religion. Religion converts everyone it can now i guess you could change the meaning of converting and make it so that white people cannot be converted by Catholicism because they made it or every other religion depending on what ethnic background came up with it. Christians converting Hindus is just like Christians converting americans please stop being racist and have an open mind if the religion is failing so be it let it die like all the other thousands of religions before it was invented.