How we know that there was no Flood of Noah.

[james dixon]

Any flood that would not have left massive evidence for its occurrence would also be too small to require an Ark. Noah and family could have easily walked out of an area that was to be flooded

Just because some of the content had been exaggerated for analytical purposes does not mean the overall context should be discounted.

In my view of things

 

[Subduction Zone]

I wouldn't say they were exaggerating ages old myths. Just think for a moment what kind of world we would be living in today is the "bible" had never been written.

There would have been no guidelines to follow. No sense of good and bad, nothing to cause you to reconsider not to murder, not to lie or steal.

What king of society would we be living in today assuming we had not destroyed ourselves by now?

We live by the rule of law and the bible provided that law.

in my view of things

That is simply ridiculous. Most of the laws that we follow today were developed independent of the Bible. We do not need a book of myth for guidelines. The Code of Hammurabi predates the Ten Commandments:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/ancient/hamframe.asp

Other civilizations developed their own codes of ethics. You only believe that because you were not educated about all of the other societies and the ones that the Bible copied from.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Just because some of the content had been exaggerated for analytical purposes does not mean the overall context should be discounted.

In my view of things

Grossly exaggerated. Any flood small enough to not leave massive evidence behind would make the Ark pointless.

Why did Noah need an ark?

 

[exchemist]

I consed your view of this. Using the shells found on Mount Everest does not in itself prove a "great flood"; nor does it disprove it either.

True.

There are lots of ideas about whether there was some sort of flood, and if so what it was, when and where it took place, and how it was that ancient people came to write about it, in the Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh and then in the Old Testament. But as you rightly say, marine fossils in the Himalayas don't shed any light on it, as there are other reasons for them to be there.

 

[ecco]

I wouldn't say they were exaggerating ages old myths. Just think for a moment what kind of world we would be living in today if the "bible" had never been written.

There would have been no guidelines to follow. No sense of good and bad, nothing to cause you to reconsider not to murder, not to lie or steal.

What king of society would we be living in today assuming we had not destroyed ourselves by now?

We live by the rule of law and the bible provided that law.

in my view of things

If you believe in evolution, you know humans were around for 100,000 years before the Bible was written. Even before small tribes assembled into villages, rules were needed. These "rules of law" long preceded the OT and Egyptian and Babylonian civilizations.

The Incas, Aztecs and Mayans had laws and they never saw a Bible.
The Orientals had laws and they never saw a Bible.

Many civilizations included their laws into their holy concepts. Why?

1. Man says Don't Kill People
2. The King/Supreme Ruler says Don't Kill People
3. God says Don't Kill People

A person might not care about a law that another man created. A person might be more inclined to obey a law decreed by a King. But when it's a Law that came straight from God...

It's the ultimate version of "Just you wait 'til your father gets home!"


Some of our laws may seem to be Biblically based, but the Bible writers took their laws from far older civilizations.

Also, consider that not all of the Bible laws and examples were good.

• On direct instructions from God, victorious soldiers were instructed to kill all the male relatives and older women of a defeated army. The young females were given to the soldiers of the victorious army.
• People committing adultery were stoned to death.
• Homosexuals were demonized.
• Women were placed in arranged marriages in exchange for the fathers getting a few pigs.

 

[Audie]

Just because some of the content had been exaggerated for analytical purposes does not mean the overall context should be discounted.

In my view of things

Analytical purposes?

 

[james dixon]

Analytical purposes?

I agree, that is the wrong word and I cannot come up with the right one. If you wanted to describe something on a level that would be easier to understand how would you describe the difference between the original word and a word that is easier to understand yet the intended meaning is the same?

 

[james dixon]

These "rules of law" long preceded the OT and Egyptian and Babylonian civilizations.

You are welcome to believe this while I believe differently.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are welcome to believe this while I believe differently.

Why do you believe what you choose to believe? His belief is not based upon choice. His beliefs are based upon evidence.

 

[ecco]

You are welcome to believe this while I believe differently.

So you accept responsibility for stuff like this. OK.

• On direct instructions from God, victorious soldiers were instructed to kill all the male relatives and older women of a defeated army. The young females were given to the soldiers of the victorious army.
• People committing adultery were stoned to death.

 

[gnostic]

I agree, that is the wrong word and I cannot come up with the right one. If you wanted to describe something on a level that would be easier to understand how would you describe the difference between the original word and a word that is easier to understand yet the intended meaning is the same?

Contextual analysis?

When translating any text, it is often impossible to do a direct literal translation, from one language to another, so they often try to understand one language, and try to recreate the same context in this language for something more “suited” in another language.

Today, when translating, it better to get the context as correct as possible even if it meant not translating too literal.

Too literal translation, will “get lost in translation”.

During my days of research in mythological literature (1999 - 2007), I discovered that there can be many translations for just one work, eg the bible, The Iliad and The Odyssey of Homer. Most of them go by contextual translations over literal translations.

 

[Audie]

I agree, that is the wrong word and I cannot come up with the right one. If you wanted to describe something on a level that would be easier to understand how would you describe the difference between the original word and a word that is easier to understand yet the intended meaning is the same?

Sheesh, you write like Lewis Carrol-as in for example:

"Never Imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise."

Regardless..

You mean like "exaggerate for effect, but not so much
as to change the meaning"?

You seem to be saying that while (some?)
parts of the story may be exaggerated, (which?)
the whole flood story is about real events,
and god's purpose, to eliminate all people but
one family, was actually achieved?

A time machine would let us see it all happen
pretty much as the bible says?

 

[Audie]

Contextual analysis?

When translating any text, it is often impossible to do a direct literal translation, from one language to another, so they often try to understand one language, and try to recreate the same context in this language for something more “suited” in another language.

Today, when translating, it better to get the context as correct as possible even if it meant not translating too literal.

Too literal translation, will “get lost in translation”.

During my days of research in mythological literature (1999 - 2007), I discovered that there can be many translations for just one work, eg the bible, The Iliad and The Odyssey of Homer. Most of them go by contextual translations over literal translations.

Woe unto he who tries to go literal translating
between Chinese and English!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Dear ecco -

Yourself and many others here could realize and acknowledge that the victorious Hebrew soldiers were attacked and threatened by a generation war campaign that was directed at them by their neighboring civilizations that outnumbered them greatly.

If a people such as the Jews who were are being hunted down targeted and target for extermination by other nations who massively outnumbered them - Would it not be simply a case of the Hebrew soldiers defending their children by destroying the other Adults and Children of the enemies who were determined in their goals to raise, train and direct / point their own children to someday attack and kill the Hebrews ?

In WW II - The USA killed millions of women and children in order to complete a Victory that would last forever and made swiftly and quickly.

If anyone of us were in this situation and were at war and found Young clean virgin females of the enemy -

why not take them in -as prisoners of war and give them the choice to be another wife - if she made this choice of Her own free will ?

The Bible says to respect them and to not abuse them - Deu 21:14 thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

The young virgin females were not given to the soldiers of the victorious army to be sold and raped and abused. - They were prisoners of a massive ongoing generation war.

And the Bible explains that people committing adultery, bestiality, and homosexual sexual behavior were stoned to death after being warned that what they were doing was wrong.
They were stoned to death because they were dishonest about their sexual behavior and were spreading, diseases, plagues, sicknesses, symptoms and deathly viruses to innocent people in many ways ( sexually and through other transmitted contact )

The Bible explains this in a very broad and detailed explanation as it details these problems in a very clear way/

Where were homosexuals demonized ? - Other than the Bible saying that their " THEIR BLOOD SHALL BE UPON THEM "

Meaning their blood being infectious, germy, and filled with viruses and uncleanness. Anytime the Bible says " THEIR BLOOD SHALL BE UPON THEM " - this is always { ALWAYS } relating to Blood Crimes that were killing thousands of people in infections and plagues and sickness - by people being dishonest about their sexual behaviors - that killed other people - by lying to them and trying to hide their own sexual activity meanwhile attempting to engage in normal; family life - this was killing thousands of people. The Bible is very clear. and please show us where in the Bible, were any Women placed in arranged marriages. ?

Marry me or die is pretty much rape.

 

[Audie]

Dear ecco -

Yourself and many others here could realize and acknowledge that the victorious Hebrew soldiers were attacked and threatened by a generation war campaign that was directed at them by their neighboring civilizations that outnumbered them greatly.

If a people such as the Jews who were are being hunted down targeted and target for extermination by other nations who massively outnumbered them - Would it not be simply a case of the Hebrew soldiers defending their children by destroying the other Adults and Children of the enemies who were determined in their goals to raise, train and direct / point their own children to someday attack and kill the Hebrews ?

In WW II - The USA killed millions of women and children in order to complete a Victory that would last forever and made swiftly and quickly.

If anyone of us were in this situation and were at war and found Young clean virgin females of the enemy -

why not take them in -as prisoners of war and give them the choice to be another wife - if she made this choice of Her own free will ?

The Bible says to respect them and to not abuse them - Deu 21:14 thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

The young virgin females were not given to the soldiers of the victorious army to be sold and raped and abused. - They were prisoners of a massive ongoing generation war.

And the Bible explains that people committing adultery, bestiality, and homosexual sexual behavior were stoned to death after being warned that what they were doing was wrong.
They were stoned to death because they were dishonest about their sexual behavior and were spreading, diseases, plagues, sicknesses, symptoms and deathly viruses to innocent people in many ways ( sexually and through other transmitted contact )

The Bible explains this in a very broad and detailed explanation as it details these problems in a very clear way/

Where were homosexuals demonized ? - Other than the Bible saying that their " THEIR BLOOD SHALL BE UPON THEM "

Meaning their blood being infectious, germy, and filled with viruses and uncleanness. Anytime the Bible says " THEIR BLOOD SHALL BE UPON THEM " - this is always { ALWAYS } relating to Blood Crimes that were killing thousands of people in infections and plagues and sickness - by people being dishonest about their sexual behaviors - that killed other people - by lying to them and trying to hide their own sexual activity meanwhile attempting to engage in normal; family life - this was killing thousands of people. The Bible is very clear. and please show us where in the Bible, were any Women placed in arranged marriages. ?

Let us think for a bit, visualize the situation.

There has been a battle, the roars and screams, the
dust, the clash of metal, the stench of blood, the
severed arms, heads, intestines on the ground.

Lets say I am a 15 yr old girl, witness the butchery of
my family and the burning of my city. My mother,
killed in front of me.

Then, these armored, blood splattered men find me.

How do you suppose they will find out whether
I am a virgin?

You find all this to be sacred and wonderful?

 

[starsofirelight]

absolutely wonderful. Searching out and asking the prisoners of war if they are virgins is not very hard.

Jews quickly eliminated the enemy that had been killing them and their own children and attacking their weak and defenseless. The enemies that had continually rounded up and gathered a UNITED WAR CAMPAIGN confederacy of the United - Canaanites, Ishmaelites, Ammonites, Amalekites and Moabites and others - to attempt to exterminate Jews - attacking - again and again, and again non - stop...

Always on the run, always defending, always being forced to fight and defend Yourself - You have no time to allow their children to continually multiply in massive numbers - only to grow to adulthood, and multiply to an overwhelming violent, brutal, powerful and exterminating force that are too numerous for Your children to someday defend.

Had the USA not exterminated millions upon millions of enemy women and children in WWII - we would have lost millions more of our own males. it is not complicated - unless one has no problem with Israel or with America suffering loss at the hands of barbaric, murderous, evil and violent civilizations who are the - F I R S T - to attack, with intent to exterminate and completely annihilate Your family and Your entire race.

The Bible explains that the Jews were the first to be attacked and that they were attacked from behind - as the Amalekites firstly began the attack - by attacking The Jews from behind while they were peacefully traveling - looking for a home. The Amalekites attacked FIRST attacking them, from the rear - slaughtering their weak, feeble, tired and their elder mothers and fathers. - from behind, at the rear of the line as they were traveling.

Afterward, the Amalekites, Moabites, and Ishmaelites proceeded to rally the other civilizations in extermination and slaughter to exterminate them. and removal of the Jewish race was their only goal and the only goal that they had - for several generations - non-stop.

I have read beyond the cover of the Bible.

Finding virgins was easy - the Hebrews knew who was a virgin and they wanted to give them freedom and opportunity to live and be respected. They probably MOSTLY were all women who under a certain age. it was a horrible situation and I would never wish this on anyone but these people chose to make a generational warfare and they bred, raised, and trained and molded their children for the purpose of Hebrew extermination. - What else could the Jews do ?

Accept being exterminated and Your Children losing their identity and being forced to join other nations because the other nations want to slaughter Your parents. ?

 

[Audie]

Finding virgins was easy - the Hebrews knew who was a virgin and they wanted to give them freedom and opportunity to live and be respected. They probably MOSTLY were all women who under a certain age.

Of course it is easy to see if a girl is a virgin,
once she has been subdued..

No doubt it feels wonderful to be the person
who grabs a terrified girl and does the inspection.

That is called "giving her her freedom."

You and your book are beyond appalling.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You are welcome to believe this while I believe differently.

So you'd rather believe what you want to believe, rather than just accept reality? Why?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have read beyond the cover of the Bible.

In other words he makes things up to justify the atrocities of the Bible.

 

[Jose Fly]

It's always fascinating to watch Christians defending and justifying genocide. A bit scary too, since it indicates that there's nothing they won't do if they believe God told them to do it.