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How we know that there was no Flood of Noah.

Cacotopia

Let's go full Trottle
Yet another insufferable person who thinks ancient people are dumb idiots.

Most people think the pyramids are built like we build buildings. Bottom up using scaffolding. They tried to do do with a mini-replica, and wound up running inro problems with gravity heavy blocks uphill even with a ramp, not happening. This was barely 20 ft off the ground with a small crew. "If we just had more ppl, this it totally how it worked." No, sorry you don't win the prize.

The Surprising Truth About How the Great Pyramids Were Built

They were built top down. Not only does this never occur to modern people but they think you're crazy to suggest this. Dig and push, dig and push. No elaborate ramps, just move blocks under blocks. But yeah, ancient ppl are stupid. We modern ppl are so much more brilliant with our computers, which we spend all day checking social media on, only to find out that no, nobody STILL loves you, because you haven't built or created anything and want to tear down other people's work.

The Egyptians had come up with something like a battery. The Romans had aqueducts, cement ( far better than ours too, as they have structures that are over a 100 years made from cement) and subfloor heating, and all of this without electricity. You can't even live a month without electricity.

The Biblical people knew about Asia, about Africa, about Europe. You can figure this out when Christians spread there's no "what is this new land?" The Jews just didn't care about it.

Most people DO NOT KNOW how the pyramids were built, go out and ask them I bet they don't know. I have lived without electricity it isn't very fun, I have spent several years without hot water, it's not appealing taking freezing cold showers but it can be done, just use the bucket dump method. When I first moved here I wasn't on the internet for nearly a year, wow, and even today I talk to people at the dinner table and never bring my phone out, isn't that amazing?!? There you go running off with assumptions about strangers on the internet.

Biblical literalsts, young earth creationists, flat earthers (flattards), young universe believers, ignore reality, ignore completely demonstrable science because it is in contention with their book. The one book they think is the only book that matters. It's not. If you followed the biblical law to the letter, you would be in jail. Because secular society is more moral than the god of the bible.

A carpenter figured out haw they built the obelisk initially.

Is that why the battery is called a Baghdad battery? hmmm maybe that information is wrong. not from Egypt.

I highly doubt that the Jews moved all the way down to the tip of Africa and into Asia,that was cut off by the Himalayas, and the Mongolian Horde, and maybe the Chinese Empire that was extremely isolationist. You are making a LOT of assumptions about a desert dwelling nomadic people.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
I first encountered the idea in Human Instinct by Robert Winston. It is just a theory, or more properly, an hypothesis. I'm not claiming it as a fact, just an idea that appeals and makes sense to me :)
The line between appealing hypothesis and baseless speculation is a thin one, but whatever makes you happy. At the same time, this seems like one of those situations where Occam's Razor deserves consideration. :D
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
:D trust me, you really don't want to go there :D

Well...now you got me intrigued. But if you don't want to share that's fine.

I'm not sure what you perceive of me so maybe I can share with you what is on my reading list (with links for easy clicking)...

Inferno Max Hastings
Till We Have Faces C.S. Lewis
Hyperion Dan Simmons
Martin Marten Brian Boyle
The Gunslinger Stephen King
137 Arthur I Miller
The Mahabharata: A Modern Rendering Ramesh Menon
The Backyard Homestead Book of Building Projects Spike Carlson
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Well...now you got me intrigued. But if you don't want to share that's fine.

I'm not sure what you perceive of me so maybe I can share with you what is on my reading list (with links for easy clicking)...

Inferno Max Hastings
Till We Have Faces C.S. Lewis
Hyperion Dan Simmons
Martin Marten Brian Boyle
The Gunslinger Stephen King
137 Arthur I Miller
The Mahabharata: A Modern Rendering Ramesh Menon
The Backyard Homestead Book of Building Projects Spike Carlson
OK, although I'm honestly not sure what to do with such information.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
These particular issues are discussed in this video:
Thanks, but no thanks. I stopped after the 5th minutes of hearing Mr. Wise... well actually now Mr. Potty Mouth, since he rudely interrupted the video. So you guys will have to fill me in.

I'm not here to give the poster of the OP, any dart boards to throw at either. He has the Bible - Genesis 6-8 can't be so hard to read, and I never heard of any skeptic dying from reading the Bible.:laughing:

However, I'll start with the video - at least the first five minutes.
First though, let me say this.
In Proverbs 9:10, and 14:6 the then wise king Solomon wrote
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

A mocker searches for wisdom without finding it, but knowledge comes easily to a person who has understanding.

Centuries later, a follower of Jesus Christ - the wiser Solomon said this at 1 Corinthians 1:19 and 3:19
As God says in the Scriptures,
“I will destroy the wisdom of all who claim to be wise.
I will confuse those who think they know so much.”

... God considers the wisdom of this world to be foolish.
This I have found to be true.

Firstly...
When it come to the evolution theory, atheist and Bible skeptics are happy to accept that the earth and conditions on it (geographically, environmentally, etc) were vastly different from the way it is. In fact conditions always somehow seem to fit whatever theory seems to work best.
When it comes to the Bible, skeptics know how it was - It always seem to be exactly the way it is today. :astonished::laughing:
So you need x amount of gallons of water to cover the mountains - as we know them today, and you need x amount of species of animals - as we know them today - to fill Noah's ark... etc. etc. Amusing.:smile:

The reasoning on mountain formation was amusing as well. Actually every part of it I saw was.:laughing:
Mountains are formed in more than one way. Here is just one. No lava. Teenagers know that every mountain is not volcanic.

Secondly...
The water did not just come from the sky.
Genesis 7:11, 12
Noah was six hundred years old when the water under the earth started gushing out everywhere. The sky opened like windows, and rain poured down for forty days and nights.

What else?
 

Thermos aquaticus

Well-Known Member
The Black Sea Inundation event (sic) is posited to have occurred roughly 5 millennia earlier. Can you share anything that suggests that cultural memory can be sustained over such a period? Conflation strikes me as a far better explanation.

Mesopotamian culture was based in the Fertile Crescent, and the fertility of that region is tied closely to the floods that bring in rich topsoil. It was a culture that lived on a flood plain and would have gone through many floods, so it isn't that surprising that they have flood myths. I also tend to think that the Black Sea inundation is a red herring given the region that these stories originated in.
 

Thermos aquaticus

Well-Known Member
Most people think the pyramids are built like we build buildings. Bottom up using scaffolding. They tried to do do with a mini-replica, and wound up running inro problems with gravity heavy blocks uphill even with a ramp, not happening. This was barely 20 ft off the ground with a small crew. "If we just had more ppl, this it totally how it worked." No, sorry you don't win the prize.

The Surprising Truth About How the Great Pyramids Were Built

They were built top down. Not only does this never occur to modern people but they think you're crazy to suggest this. Dig and push, dig and push. No elaborate ramps, just move blocks under blocks. But yeah, ancient ppl are stupid. We modern ppl are so much more brilliant with our computers, which we spend all day checking social media on, only to find out that no, nobody STILL loves you, because you haven't built or created anything and want to tear down other people's work.

The Egyptians had come up with something like a battery. The Romans had aqueducts, cement ( far better than ours too, as they have structures that are over a 100 years made from cement) and subfloor heating, and all of this without electricity. You can't even live a month without electricity.

The Biblical people knew about Asia, about Africa, about Europe. You can figure this out when Christians spread there's no "what is this new land?" The Jews just didn't care about it.

The entire point is that Egyptian culture and pyramid building went on uninterrupted through the time when everyone except for a single family was supposedly wiped out in a global flood. Egyptian culture and history is uninterrupted by any such event, as are multiple civilizations who existed during that time.
 

Seven headed beast

Awaited One
Well, mister zone, let me explain the timeline to you, since you seem to know it all.

First of all, the Bible is a recurring prophecy. The events described in it come to pass at the end of every Age or "Yuga", in the Vedic timeline. We are swiftly approaching the end of the fourth Age or "Kali Yuga".

What you need to understand is that these Ages are all of finite length. They are based on the "procession of the equinox". We are currently coming to the end of the fourth Age. There are specific events that occur at the end of every Age, that must happen.

There is a "prophet for the end of the Age" named in each.

There is also a battle that is officially titled, "The battle of good and evil that must be fought to end the Age". The battle for this current Age is the biblical "battle of the Armageddon". The first three battles, were respectively, the battle that is recalled in the "Epic of Gilgamesh" for the first Age, the "battle of the Ten Kings" where Moses kicked the Egyptians butts for the second Age, and the battle that must be fought in the third Age, was the Battle recounted in the Mahabharata.

There is a cataclysmic event that occurs at the end of every Age as well, and the flood of Noah was the event that ended the third Age.

The event that ended the second Age, which was the Age of Moses, was called the "Deluge" or "flood of Manu".

The "procession of the equinox", which these ages are all based upon, is 25,700 years in length. This Age is one procession in length. The age of Noah was two processions in length, at roughly 52,000 years. The Age of Moses, which was the second Age, was four processions in length at 104,000 years. And the first Age, of Abraham, was eight processions in length, which I'll let you figure out since youre a math genius.

So, absolutely, the flood did happen, twice. But the flood of Noah only once.

You're basing your assumption on a mathematical formula that isnt wrong in terms of the amount of rain possible, but assume that every one died in the flood. They did not. Looking at the time line of ireland, it becomes clear that they survived the flood, but then forty days and nights of rain is just the usual weather there. Go back to the Fomorian culture, who showed up there after the second flood or Deluge, and you'll find that the place was deserted, but there was evidence of life that they found there. That is because the people that lived there previously did not survive the Deluge, which was caused by a comet impacting in the laptev sea. The scar left in the earth from that one is still visible on satellite images. So, the flood of Noah really didn't effect Ireland because of the height of the island.

What you also fail to understand is the Bible is nothing but a eschatological prophecy, period, from beginning to end. There is no message of "good hope" in there. That was shoehorned in to it be the council of Nicea where the Bible was framed from ancient Sumerian and Babylonian texts.

And, another thing, mister geology, is that modern science does not understand the speed at which carbon degrades, and the timeline that you think you comprehend, is completely skewed.

When you consider the notion the modern science place the battle to end the first Age at a mere 20,000 years ago, and the actual timeline, places it more than 175,000 years age. That's a serious discrepancy.

So, the flood of Noah did occur, but you shouldn't worry about that. What you need to concern yourself with, is where you're going to be when the cataclysmic that ends this Age happens.

There is a thirty mile wide comet that will impact the earth in equatorial Amazonia that you probably want to get good seats for, since you'll be here for that one.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Well, mister zone, let me explain the timeline to you, since you seem to know it all.

First of all, the Bible is a recurring prophecy. The events described in it come to pass at the end of every Age or "Yuga", in the Vedic timeline. We are swiftly approaching the end of the fourth Age or "Kali Yuga".

What you need to understand is that these Ages are all of finite length. They are based on the "procession of the equinox". We are currently coming to the end of the fourth Age. There are specific events that occur at the end of every Age, that must happen.

There is a "prophet for the end of the Age" named in each.

There is also a battle that is officially titled, "The battle of good and evil that must be fought to end the Age". The battle for this current Age is the biblical "battle of the Armageddon". The first three battles, were respectively, the battle that is recalled in the "Epic of Gilgamesh" for the first Age, the "battle of the Ten Kings" where Moses kicked the Egyptians butts for the second Age, and the battle that must be fought in the third Age, was the Battle recounted in the Mahabharata.

There is a cataclysmic event that occurs at the end of every Age as well, and the flood of Noah was the event that ended the third Age.

The event that ended the second Age, which was the Age of Moses, was called the "Deluge" or "flood of Manu".

The "procession of the equinox", which these ages are all based upon, is 25,700 years in length. This Age is one procession in length. The age of Noah was two processions in length, at roughly 52,000 years. The Age of Moses, which was the second Age, was four processions in length at 104,000 years. And the first Age, of Abraham, was eight processions in length, which I'll let you figure out since youre a math genius.

So, absolutely, the flood did happen, twice. But the flood of Noah only once.

You're basing your assumption on a mathematical formula that isnt wrong in terms of the amount of rain possible, but assume that every one died in the flood. They did not. Looking at the time line of ireland, it becomes clear that they survived the flood, but then forty days and nights of rain is just the usual weather there. Go back to the Fomorian culture, who showed up there after the second flood or Deluge, and you'll find that the place was deserted, but there was evidence of life that they found there. That is because the people that lived there previously did not survive the Deluge, which was caused by a comet impacting in the laptev sea. The scar left in the earth from that one is still visible on satellite images. So, the flood of Noah really didn't effect Ireland because of the height of the island.

What you also fail to understand is the Bible is nothing but a eschatological prophecy, period, from beginning to end. There is no message of "good hope" in there. That was shoehorned in to it be the council of Nicea where the Bible was framed from ancient Sumerian and Babylonian texts.

And, another thing, mister geology, is that modern science does not understand the speed at which carbon degrades, and the timeline that you think you comprehend, is completely skewed.

When you consider the notion the modern science place the battle to end the first Age at a mere 20,000 years ago, and the actual timeline, places it more than 175,000 years age. That's a serious discrepancy.

So, the flood of Noah did occur, but you shouldn't worry about that. What you need to concern yourself with, is where you're going to be when the cataclysmic that ends this Age happens.

There is a thirty mile wide comet that will impact the earth in equatorial Amazonia that you probably want to get good seats for, since you'll be here for that one.

Oh dear. Have you been on "Coast to Coast" yet?

Since you seem to know it all, you really should.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Why are you so interested in showing people to "be in error". Does that make you feel like you are a better person?
Since those sorts of errors often harm them or are used to harm others, yes. What have you done for the betterment of humanity?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
This is a really strange way to start a conversation. How can an interpretation of Noah's Ark myth never occur? People interpret the Bible in many ways. Nobody is doubting the existence of interpretations about Bible stories.

Are you trying to say the story of Noah's Ark never occurred? Well, people who believe the Bible is the word of God just assume it did occur because it is in the Bible.

I don't think it really matters too much if the story of Noah actually happened in reality. The essential message of the Bible is having morality is important. I don't see why being skeptical about Bible stories happening in reality changes the message about the importance of having morality.
I see that reading comprehension is not on your list of skills.

And calling the Bible the "Word of God" is highly blasphemous. One is implying that God is evil, incompetent and vain when one does so. Not a good excuse for believing a myth.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Well, mister zone, let me explain the timeline to you, since you seem to know it all.

First of all, the Bible is a recurring prophecy. The events described in it come to pass at the end of every Age or "Yuga", in the Vedic timeline. We are swiftly approaching the end of the fourth Age or "Kali Yuga".

What you need to understand is that these Ages are all of finite length. They are based on the "procession of the equinox". We are currently coming to the end of the fourth Age. There are specific events that occur at the end of every Age, that must happen.

There is a "prophet for the end of the Age" named in each.

There is also a battle that is officially titled, "The battle of good and evil that must be fought to end the Age". The battle for this current Age is the biblical "battle of the Armageddon". The first three battles, were respectively, the battle that is recalled in the "Epic of Gilgamesh" for the first Age, the "battle of the Ten Kings" where Moses kicked the Egyptians butts for the second Age, and the battle that must be fought in the third Age, was the Battle recounted in the Mahabharata.

There is a cataclysmic event that occurs at the end of every Age as well, and the flood of Noah was the event that ended the third Age.

The event that ended the second Age, which was the Age of Moses, was called the "Deluge" or "flood of Manu".

The "procession of the equinox", which these ages are all based upon, is 25,700 years in length. This Age is one procession in length. The age of Noah was two processions in length, at roughly 52,000 years. The Age of Moses, which was the second Age, was four processions in length at 104,000 years. And the first Age, of Abraham, was eight processions in length, which I'll let you figure out since youre a math genius.

So, absolutely, the flood did happen, twice. But the flood of Noah only once.

You're basing your assumption on a mathematical formula that isnt wrong in terms of the amount of rain possible, but assume that every one died in the flood. They did not. Looking at the time line of ireland, it becomes clear that they survived the flood, but then forty days and nights of rain is just the usual weather there. Go back to the Fomorian culture, who showed up there after the second flood or Deluge, and you'll find that the place was deserted, but there was evidence of life that they found there. That is because the people that lived there previously did not survive the Deluge, which was caused by a comet impacting in the laptev sea. The scar left in the earth from that one is still visible on satellite images. So, the flood of Noah really didn't effect Ireland because of the height of the island.

What you also fail to understand is the Bible is nothing but a eschatological prophecy, period, from beginning to end. There is no message of "good hope" in there. That was shoehorned in to it be the council of Nicea where the Bible was framed from ancient Sumerian and Babylonian texts.

And, another thing, mister geology, is that modern science does not understand the speed at which carbon degrades, and the timeline that you think you comprehend, is completely skewed.

When you consider the notion the modern science place the battle to end the first Age at a mere 20,000 years ago, and the actual timeline, places it more than 175,000 years age. That's a serious discrepancy.

So, the flood of Noah did occur, but you shouldn't worry about that. What you need to concern yourself with, is where you're going to be when the cataclysmic that ends this Age happens.

There is a thirty mile wide comet that will impact the earth in equatorial Amazonia that you probably want to get good seats for, since you'll be here for that one.
Wow!! Just Wow!.

Probably just a hit and run poster.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
The Biblical people knew about Asia, about Africa, about Europe. You can figure this out when Christians spread there's no "what is this new land?"
And yet, Columbus, with all the accumulated knowledge at his hands, believed he could sail West and land in India. When he realized his mistake he probably said "what is this new land?"
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
The people of the bible didn't know how big the world was, to them likely the world was as far as the eye could see. if a flood happened and everywhere they saw was flooded, then they would likely think that the entire world was flooded. Where else in the world is ancient Hebrew existence found? Is it just isolated to between Egypt and Jerusalem? That's not exactly that large a portion of the globe, like 3-4% of the landmass.

But to them that 3-4% was the whole world.

If you take the bible as literal, and apply the interpretation to the whole planet, then frankly you are an idiot. These people were not worldly. Evidence of their un-worldliness can be found from not finding evidence of their people being anywhere else other than that 3-4% swath of land, of the planet's landmass. . Other civilizations existed elsewhere, yet have no records of meeting these Hebrew peoples.
Here's something the wise men of this earth lately discovered.
That's pretty amazing! Modern man is so smart... so absolutely brilliant!:smirk:

Genesis 7:11
New International Version
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

New Living Translation
When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the underground waters erupted from the earth, and the rain fell in mighty torrents from the sky.

English Standard Version
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

Wait! What? Primitive and backward people wrote this?:dizzy:
Guys... Maybe instead of bringing back the woolly mammoth, it might be a good idea to bring back the primitives.

Then again that might be a bad idea. One look at man's progress and wisdom... they might die from laughter.:laughing:
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Most people think the pyramids are built like we build buildings. Bottom up using scaffolding.
The Surprising Truth About How the Great Pyramids Were Built

They were built top down.
The Egyptians had come up with something like a battery.

I guess you assumed (hoped) no one would follow your link and actually read the article.

I did.

There is nothing in the article that says they were built top down. In fact the article states that the lower portions were built from stone blocks. The article speculates, and provides evidence for, the upper layers probably being constructed from cast "concrete".

There is nothing in the article about a battery or anything resembling a battery.

Yet another insufferable person who thinks ancient people are dumb idiots.

For the record, I'm a big believer that people 5,000 years ago were just as intelligent as we are today.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
The Swiss Alps have melt lines. I researched on this and wrote a midterm paper for a religion course

.Is there evidence that the flood was global? | Bibleinfo.com

To answer the question, no that's not my midterm linked there.
...
But as you can see from that article, flooding happened in places other than just the Alps.

Your original post referenced "melt lines". Then your post said you wrote a midterm about it. Then you linked to an article in BibleInfo.com

Nowhere in the linked article is the term "melt lines" used. So I guess it's from your midterm, which you have not shared with us. Apparently there is no way to know what "melt lines" means or refers to.



The article you linked:
The linked article is typical of Flood articles that can be found on many Creationist web sites.
The article was written by Harold Coffin, Phd


The following comes from his sworn testimony given pre trial discovery process and linked here:
Deposition of Harold G. Coffin

Mr. Coffin is a life long Seventh-Day Adventist. He believes the earth is five to 7,000 years old because he has confidence in the information given in the Scripture.

He accepts Genesis as being accurate history and literally true.

His Dissertation and a majority of his work was studying horseshoe crabs.

He was once an Elder and considers himself a fundamentalist
Christian.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Here's something the wise men of this earth lately discovered.
That's pretty amazing! Modern man is so smart... so absolutely brilliant!:smirk:

Genesis 7:11
New International Version
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

New Living Translation
When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the underground waters erupted from the earth, and the rain fell in mighty torrents from the sky.

English Standard Version
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

Wait! What? Primitive and backward people wrote this?:dizzy:
Guys... Maybe instead of bringing back the woolly mammoth, it might be a good idea to bring back the primitives.

Then again that might be a bad idea. One look at man's progress and wisdom... they might die from laughter.:laughing:

So without using the magic "God can do anything" plot destroyer, how did all that molecular water suddenly escape from all that rock all at once and then go back into the rocks again just as if the water was in them when they originally formed millions of years ago.

The creator of that video makes no claims about a global flood as well...perhaps because he would see that as a mistaken deduction. He seems to be a science minded guy who is, nonetheless, interested in ideas and theories that overturn our assumptions...typical of sciency types.

Fail! Another example of a misappropriation of sincere content being interpreted as proof for something that the content originator never intended.
 
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