How were the days in the Genesis account to be understood?

[Bowman]

Why are you asking me? I asked you the question. The burden of proof is on you. Besides, if you do not believe the Yucca plant was created on the third day, then surely you must have assigned it a classification and know much more about it than I do. Once again, on what day was the Yucca plant created, if it was not created on the third day, as you claim?

Its body type would have to match that of 'day 3' to even be considered, brother.

 

[james2ko]

Its body type would have to match that of 'day 3' to even be considered, brother.

Let's try this again...And please try not to dodge the question a third time.

If you do not believe the Yucca plant was created on the third day, then surely you must have assigned it a classification and know much more about it than I do. For the third time, on what day was the Yucca plant created, if it was not created on the third day, as you claim? If you do not answer the question, one would have to conclude you do not want your cherished fallacy exposed!!!

 

[Bowman]

Let's try this again...And please try not to dodge the question a third time.

If you do not believe the Yucca plant was created on the third day, then surely you must have assigned it a classification and know much more about it than I do. For the third time, on what day was the Yucca plant created, if it was not created on the third day, as you claim? If you do not answer the question, one would have to conclude you do not want your cherished fallacy exposed!!!

Creation 'Day 5', brother.

 

[Bowman]

Now...how about those '24hr' days not matching up with science?

 

[Bowman]

Post #103, brother read it before making another post that you must re-tract...

 

[james2ko]

Post #103, brother read it before making another post that you must re-tract...

I retracted it simply because I was asking a question you avoided three times not realizing you answered it.

 

[james2ko]

Creation 'Day 5', brother.

So the Yucca plant was created in day five? Let's take a look....

Gen 1:20-23 Then God said, "Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens." 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

I see birds and sea creatures....No mention of plants, seeds, or herbs of any kind!!!!! And even if they were created on the fifth day, Yucca plants can not survive without pollination from the Yucca moth which were created on the sixth day !!!!!!!!!! It would have been a scientific impossibility for the Yucca plant to survive millions of years without their exclusive insect partners!!!!

The truth will set you free, Bowman!!! (John 8:32)

Wikipedia: Yucca Moth.
US Forest ServiceYucca Moth

 

[Bowman]

So the Yucca plant was created in day five? Let's take a look....

Gen 1:20-23 Then God said, "Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens." 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

I see birds and sea creatures....No mention of plants, seeds, or herbs of any kind!!!!! And even if they were created on the fifth day, Yucca plants can not survive without pollination from the Yucca moth which were created on the sixth day !!!!!!!!!! It would have been a scientific impossibility for the Yucca plant to survive millions of years without their exclusive insect partners!!!!

The truth will set you free, Bowman!!! (John 8:32)

Wikipedia: Yucca Moth.
US Forest ServiceYucca Moth

When are you ever going to actually learn to study scripture?

Observe ‘Day 5’…



Gen 1.20 And GodH430 said,H559 Let the watersH4325 bring forth abundantlyH8317 the moving creatureH8318 that hath life,H5315 H2416 and fowlH5775 that may flyH5774 aboveH5921 the earthH776 inH5921 the openH6440 firmamentH7549 of heaven.H8064



H8318
שׁרץ
sherets
BDB Definition:
1) teeming or swarming things, creepers, swarmers
1a) of insects, animals, small reptiles, quadrupeds
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H8317
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2467a



No, brother…insects were not created on ‘day 6’.

They were needed for your yucca plants on ‘Day 5’ as we already stated.

Try again…

 

[james2ko]

When are you ever going to actually learn to study scripture?

Observe ‘Day 5’…

And GodH430 said,H559 Let the watersH4325 bring forth abundantlyH8317 the moving creatureH8318 that hath life,H5315 H2416 and fowlH5775 that may flyH5774 aboveH5921 the earthH776 inH5921 the openH6440 firmamentH7549 of heaven.H8064

H8318
שׁרץ
sherets
BDB Definition:
1) teeming or swarming things, creepers, swarmers
1a) of insects, animals, small reptiles, quadrupeds
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H8317
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2467a

No, brother…insects were not created on ‘day 6’.

They were needed for your yucca plants on ‘Day 5’ as we already stated.

Try again…

The context in Gen 1:20 is very clearly referring to the moving creatures in the sea.and birds of the air.

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
​

For arguments sake let's say insects were created on day 5 , where is the Yucca plant creation mentioned in the narrative of day 5 you so boldly claimed??? You agreed back in post #22 that all plant life was created on day 3. Changed your mind so it can fit into the mold of your million year per day fairy tale?

Either way you slice it, you still have a hole in your fallacy as big as the Grand Canyon. You can twist and manipulate scriptures every which way, brother. But the truth of the matter is, it is impossible to reconcile long creation days with scientific or biblical evidence. The truth will always triumph!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bowman]

The context in Gen 1:20 is very clearly referring to the moving creatures in the sea.and birds of the air.

Nope.

Life began in the water brother.

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
​

For arguments sake let's say insects were created on day 5 ,

What other choice do you have...as the classic definition mandates that insects were created on 'Day 5'.

Not 'Day 6' as you wrongly claimed.
​

where is the Yucca plant creation mentioned in the narrative of day 5 you so boldly claimed??? You agreed back in post #22 that all plant life was created on day 3. Changed your mind so it can fit into the mold of your million year per day fairy tale?

The Hebrew never claims that all plant life was created on 'Day 3'.

This is your invention because you don't study Hebrew.

Either way you slice it, you still have a hole in your fallacy as big as the Grand Canyon. You can twist and manipulate scriptures every which way, brother. But the truth of the matter is, it is impossible to reconcile long creation days with scientific or biblical evidence. The truth will always triumph!!!!!!!!!

You have yet to be correct on anything that you have stated.

 

[Pegg]

So the Yucca plant was created in day five? Let's take a look....

Gen 1:20-23 Then God said, "Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens." 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

I see birds and sea creatures....No mention of plants, seeds, or herbs of any kind!!!!! And even if they were created on the fifth day, Yucca plants can not survive without pollination from the Yucca moth which were created on the sixth day !!!!!!!!!! It would have been a scientific impossibility for the Yucca plant to survive millions of years without their exclusive insect partners!!!!

The truth will set you free, Bowman!!! (John 8:32)

Wikipedia: Yucca Moth.
US Forest ServiceYucca Moth

there is always some explanation that we may not be considering. God does things in order and by arrangement (you only need to look at the stars to see order)
He created these things over long periods of time and the creative periods can actually overlap because even though plants were said to be created on the 5th day, some plants were also said to be created on the 6th day when the Creator “planted a garden in Eden” and “made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food.”

So its unreasonable to assume that your yukka plant MUST have been created on the 5th day... it may very well not have been.

 

[james2ko]

Life began in the water brother.

And according to your interpretation that would include insects and Yucca plants?

The Hebrew never claims that all plant life was created on 'Day 3'.

But you did back in post #22? Then changed it to day 5. Now today it's day 1??? What's it going to be tomorrow? Day 2 or perhaps day 4? Ooohhh...I know.... maybe you'll just invent a whole new day... Bottom line, there is no indication in the text that plant life was created any other day.

]This is your invention because you don't study Hebrew.

What other choice do you have...as the classic definition mandates that insects were created on 'Day 5'.

As I stated previously, even if they were, its a moot point because it still debunks your interpretation of long creation days which is the point of this discussion, wouldn't you agree? There is no indication that additional plant life were created on day 5. That my friend is your invention!!!!

Yucca plants, maple trees, stawberries, blackberries, honeysuckle, poppies, and other brightly-colored odored flowers were created in day 3. Whether insects were created on day 5 or 6 is irrelevant, according to your age long creation days, these plants would have had to survive millions of years before they could be pollinated by their insect partners. A scientific impossibility!

A literal 24 hr creation day would be the only explanation of why these plants are still with us today!

You have yet to be correct on anything that you have stated.

NOPE ....I am definitely right about one thing.....Your age old creation days being false..

 

[james2ko]

there is always some explanation that we may not be considering. God does things in order and by arrangement (you only need to look at the stars to see order) He created these things over long periods of time and the creative periods can actually overlap because even though plants were said to be created on the 5th day, some plants were also said to be created on the 6th day when the Creator “planted a garden in Eden” and “made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food.”

Theres no indication in the text that "planting a garden in eden" equates to new plant species being created. Could not God have planted the garden using already existing plant life?

So its unreasonable to assume that your yukka plant MUST have been created on the 5th day... it may very well not have been.

I think you got Bowman and I confused. He is the one asserting that the Yucca plant was created on day 5.

 

[dmgdnooc]

Do you think they were meant to be understood as 24 hr days or rather an expression or figure of speech, one that signifies an indefinite period of time?

Two cents worth is 2 cents worth, so here is mine.
　
In the Bible the word 'day' generally specifies the ususal 24hr dusk to dusk period.
Importantly - This is not exclusively so.
1. There are times when the word 'day' is applied in the sense of a 'time period', as we might speak of FDR's 'day', meaning his 'time' or the 'epoch' of his influence.
2. The Bible employs 'telescoping' as a device of language whereby events spread over many days are telescoped together, appearing as though of a continuous narrative of a single 'day'. Moderns employ the device also, it is a feature of literature.
3. And the word is occasionally applied on a 'day' equals a period of '1 year', '360 years' and others by some prophetic writers.
　
Point being - A 'day' need not be limited to a 24hr period in the Bible. Nor in modern usage either. A 'day' of the creation narrative could be of 700 million years duration, or of any undefined length of time.
　
The particular 'days' of creation appear to describe epochs of both geological and biological time that would require more than a 24 hr period. All that rock couldn't be moved in 24 hrs, where did the heat go, etc?
Reading the text of Genesis 1 would help. And stand in the Mesopotamian viewpoint of creation, on some safe promontory of a mist shrouded Earth, not expecting to see the Sun, Moon and Stars until the mist clears a little; there is all that heat and water to be considered after all.
　
Day 1. Primordial Earth, a formless mass of bare rock and water; light unable to penetrate the enshrouding mist of water vapour.
God generated light appears after the Spirit of God has moved upon the surface waters(brooded, as a bird on her nest) and as a result of God's direct action of speaking.
Day 2. Heavy plumbing day, the Earth's atmospheric and hydrological systems were crafted.
Day 3. A last plumbing exercise and the continents emerge, plant life takes root.
Day 4. The atmosphere thins a little, light from outside can now penetrate, there is a night sky.
Day 5. Living creatures appear in the seas and oceans even great fish, winged creatures too.
Day 6. Large mammals appear; and lastly, a homo sapien who became the master of animals, the beneficiary of the Earth's produce.
　
It seems to me to be a fairly accurate account of the events; it begins in the right place, an accretion of hot rocks and comet impacts, and has the right sort of events in much the right order, far as I can see (fish come b4 mammals, cattle b4 man, that sort of thing).
Many things left out, no dinosaurs, except by inferrence in mentioning their avian descendants.
Its not bad, go on admit it, for an uninformed, stab in the dark, prehistoric 'oral tradition'.
It gets more things right more often than mere chance could tell.
　
Maybe it could also be considered that God didn't need 6 days:
So what took Him so long?, you might ask.

 

[Bowman]

And according to your interpretation that would include insects and Yucca plants?

The text states that insects arose from the water on ‘Day 5’.

Assuming that yucca plants have always required insects for survival, then they also would have had to come into existence at the same time.

But you did back in post #22? Then changed it to day 5. Now today it's day 1??? What's it going to be tomorrow? Day 2 or perhaps day 4? Ooohhh...I know.... maybe you'll just invent a whole new day... Bottom line, there is no indication in the text that plant life was created any other day.

Nope.

Not in post 22….or any other post, brother…

Our position has never changed.

Keep inventing…

As I stated previously, even if they were, its a moot point because it still debunks your interpretation of long creation days which is the point of this discussion, wouldn't you agree? There is no indication that additional plant life were created on day 5. That my friend is your invention!!!!

Yucca plants, maple trees, stawberries, blackberries, honeysuckle, poppies, and other brightly-colored odored flowers were created in day 3. Whether insects were created on day 5 or 6 is irrelevant, according to your age long creation days, these plants would have had to survive millions of years before they could be pollinated by their insect partners. A scientific impossibility!

Insects are never mentioned in the Hebrew on ‘Day 6’ as you claim.

They are, however, mentioned on ‘Day 5’ as we have repeatedly stated.

A literal 24 hr creation day would be the only explanation of why these plants are still with us today!

NOPE ....I am definitely right about one thing.....Your age old creation days being false..

Your 24hr position does not match scripture – nor does it match science.

From NASA…

The Earth would be a very different place if the moon did not exist. Not only did the Earth slow down the Moon’s rotation, but the Moon is slowing down the rotation rate of the Earth. Since the moon’s formation, the Earth has been slowing its rotation due to the friction of the tides caused by the moon, and in reaction to this exchange of energy, the moon has been moving farther away from the Earth. In fact, at the time of the moon’s formation the Earth rotated much faster than it does today; a day on early Earth was only a few hours long. But the Moon, being small in relation to Earth, will take more than twice the age of the solar system to slow Earth’s spin rate to the Moon’s orbital rate.


http://lunarscience.arc.nasa.gov/articles/nasa-scientist-jen-heldmann-describes-how-the-earths-moon-was-formed

Keep inventing, brother…

 

[InvestigateTruth]

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. Mat. 13:12

4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. Mark 4:13

8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 8:11 Luke

2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 1 Cor 2:8

14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.1 Cor 14:3

"And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed.” (Isaiah 29:11).

 

[sandy whitelinger]

From NASA:

http://lunarscience.arc.nasa.gov/articles/nasa-scientist-jen-heldmann-describes-how-the-earths-moon-was-formed

Thank you. now can you quote a source that says how much the earth's rotation has slowed down in relation to when God formed the moon?

 

[Bowman]

Thank you. now can you quote a source that says how much the earth's rotation has slowed down in relation to when God formed the moon?

NASA - Eclipse Predictions and Earth's Rotation

 

[Bowman]

　
The particular 'days' of creation appear to describe epochs of both geological and biological time that would require more than a 24 hr period. All that rock couldn't be moved in 24 hrs, where did the heat go, etc?

Agreed...

 

[Pegg]

Theres no indication in the text that "planting a garden in eden" equates to new plant species being created. Could not God have planted the garden using already existing plant life?

there is absolutely no indication either way which is why its not possible to say that the yukka plant was created in the 5th day or in the 6th

I think you got Bowman and I confused. He is the one asserting that the Yucca plant was created on day 5.

Bowman says a lot of things... but he uses very few scriptures to back them up


I havnt seen the yukka plant mentioned in any part of the bible, have you?