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How were the days in the Genesis account to be understood?
- Thread starter Youtellme
- Start date
james2ko
Well-Known Member
Just like you assumed in post #22 that even though the same two Hebrew words for evening and morning appear in both Dan 8:14 and the creation account followed by a number which contextual analysis clearly indicates 24 hr periods through out scripture, but you dismiss Dan 8:14 as being 24 hr periods because it does not include the word "day".
Yet not one word even remotely close to mentioning plant creation in day 5 but we have to "assume" plants were created on that day?????? And you have the gall to ridicule my interpretation skills?
YEP.
I said in post 22: "The ocean receded, dry land appeared and grass and herbs were planted the third day."
You answered: "Agreed."
I asked: "For the third time, on what day was the Yucca plant created, if it was not created on the third day, as you claim?"
You answered: "Creation 'Day 5', brother."
As I stated previously, even if they were, its a moot point because it still debunks your interpretation of long creation days which is the point of this discussion, The text makes no mention of additional plant life created on day 5.
Your rotation theory does not fit into the scope of our discussion and really does not apply. God altered the rotation of the earth on day one thus establishing the first 24 hr day (Gen 1:4-5). How fast the earth was rotating before day one (between Gen1:1 and Gen1:2) is irrelevant. We're discussing the 6 day re-creation or renewing account (Psa 104:30) from the already existing and damaged earth (Gen 1:2) which commenced in verse 3. And all biblical and scientific evidence point to a 24 hr literal day.
Furthermore, the bible's 24 hr per day interpretation makes more sense scientifically. Plants could survive a few days without insects. But they could not survive millions of years...It's your fantasy that does not match science!!!
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james2ko
Well-Known Member
But there is definitive proof that plants were created on the third.
Most assuredly agree.
But neither are many others...Would this exclude them from being a part of the plant creation account?
Back to your one-hit-wonder verse from Daniel?
How many times do you need to be shown that the word yom does not appear in this verse, brother?
Insects were created on 'Day 5'....not 'Day 6' as you incorrectly stated.
Just admit that you were wrong, and be done with it.
Thus, plants requiring insects for survival must have also been created in unison with their symbiotic insects as well.
No mention of all plants.
Read the Hebrew, brother...
Assuming yucca plants have always needed insects for survival, then they would have needed to be created in unison with their respective insects.
And...no....this was not accomplished in 24hrs like you want it to be, brother...
Its not my theory but that of NASA and any leading astro-physicist, brother.
Perhaps you have been googling this scientific fact for the past two days and have found your 24hr day theory to be wanting on all levels...yes?
This fact alone totally destroys any possible argument you could make.
Time to file 13 the 24hr day theory.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
it doesnt exclude them, no
but its pointless trying to use the genesis account to make a point about a specific plant...genesis doesnt give specific details.
Day 3 gives three very broad categories of plants being created (Ge 1:9-13) "And the earth began to put forth grass, vegetation bearing seed according to its kind and trees yielding fruit..."
grass, seeded vegetation & trees with fruits. No mention of the different types of grasses or vegetation or trees.
james2ko
Well-Known Member
Just as many times as I need to show you that no words for plants appear in creation day 5. Brother.
Just as soon as you admit being in error about the text indicating plants being created on day 5 and Dan 8:14 not referring to literal days;
Nope. No mention of plant creation on day 5. Only on day 3. Plants could not survive millions of years without their insect partners. You are reading something into the text which simply isn't there.
Then:
*Based on everywhere evening and morning are used in the Old Testament, either together or separately and with or without yom in the context, they always mean a literal evening or morning of a 24 hr day.
*Based on every instance in the OT yom is modified with a number: one day, second day, third day, etc. indicates literal days;
*Based on yom being defined literally in Genesis 1:14 in relation to the heavenly bodies as measurement for our 24 literal days,
*Based on Gen 2:2; Exodus 20:11; Heb 4:4 show God "kalah" or "ended" (Gen 2:2) his work and "rested" past tense on the seventh day from all His works---Not is resting--which establishes an example for our current work pattern, clearly implicating the 24 hr seventh day has ended....
....we can "assume"the Genesis account is referring to 7- 24 hr time periods.
Perhaps you dodged the same question 3 times before finally coming up with an answer to buy time while you frantically scoured the net for any piece of evidence which would uphold your age old creation day theory..yes?
I agree with you that the earth could be billions of years old. That is indicated by the long period of time that could have taken place between the initial creation account in Gen 1:1 and when the earth was destroyed by Satan's rebellion, as implicated by verse 2 and other verses throughout scripture.
Where we differ is the renewing or renovation account of the damaged age old earth which was started in verse 3. The scientific evidence you point out could certainly have taken place sometime between Gen 1:1 and vs 2. But in the re-creation account, and according to scriptural as well as scientific evidence, it is certainly plausible to conclude God altered it to establish our current 24 hr day (Gen 1:4-5).
Furthermore, it is difficult to conceive an orderly, consistent and structured God, who has clearly set an example throughout scripture for us to be like Him, to have a "billion" year per day time line for His re-creation process and abruptly and confusingly use a different time measurement for the rest of scripture.
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james2ko
Well-Known Member
The Yucaa example was not the basis of the whole discussion. It is merely a very important piece of the puzzle. Take a look at the thread from the beginning and you'll discover other evidence presented to prove the re-creation account after Gen 1:3 was a 24 hr literal period-- which is the crux of this discussion.
There is no scriptural evidence in the genesis account indicating they were created on any other day. This is a circular argument that can be proven by other scriptural evidence, which I have.
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sniper762
Well-Known Member
it is apparant that moses (or the writers of genesis) used their then current 24hr = 1 day time scale to attempt to explain the earth,s origin.
although the 24hr = 1 day is debateable, the date of adam's origin is definately described through history and genealogy.
that alone is what puts the controversy between science and religion.
although the 24hr = 1 day is debateable, the date of adam's origin is definately described through history and genealogy.
that alone is what puts the controversy between science and religion.
Using your logic, then yucca plants do not exist as the term ‘yucca' is not mentioned in Genesis 1.
We have already been through each and every one of these, brother.
No...Genesis does not refer to 24hr periods of time.
Perhaps you dodged the same question 3 times before finally coming up with an answer to buy time while you frantically scoured the net for any piece of evidence which would uphold your age old creation day theory..yes?
This is how you respond to modern science telling us that the earth was spinning faster upon its axis during its early development.?
Your science needs help, brother.
This fact alone destroys your argument.
‘Satan’s rebellion’, brother.
Talk about reading words into the text which simply do not exist.
Nope.
There is no re-creation’ mentioned in the Genesis Account.
It’s not some non-monotonic account of what occurred.
It is a straight forward linear account.
Your 24hr timeline is the only confusion here…
james2ko
Well-Known Member
It seems the discussion is stuck in a fruitless merry-go-round. As I mentioned previously, it is not my responsibility to alter your beliefs, all I'm required to do is present and defend, what I perceive to be the truth. I think I've done that, although not as dignified as I would have liked. Obviously, you maintain a different view, which is perfectly within your rights.
As I reflect back through the thread, as a professing follower of Christ, I asked myself, "would He approve of the way I answered your questions and replied to your comments? The answer is categorically no. For this I apologize. Sometimes I forget the real purpose for me frequenting this forum and get "caught up" in unchristian like behavior. Our aim should be to maintain peace not stir up strife.
I learn a little something from every discussion--even from you.
I may not always agree, and will not change my core assertion, but nevertheless I become aware of a conflicting one. This is all part of growing in grace and knowledge as we are commanded to do. Hope you can accept my apology, Brother It seems the discussion is stuck in a fruitless merry-go-round. As I mentioned previously, it is not my responsibility to alter your beliefs, all I'm required to do is present and defend, what I perceive to be the truth. I think I've done that, although not as dignified as I would have liked. Obviously, you maintain a different view, which is perfectly within your rights.
As I reflect back through the thread, as a professing follower of Christ, I asked myself, "would He approve of the way I answered your questions and replied to your comments? The answer is categorically no. For this I apologize. Sometimes I forget the real purpose for me frequenting this forum and get "caught up" in unchristian like behavior. Our aim should be to maintain peace not stir up strife.
I learn a little something from every discussion--even from you.
No problem...all is well...
I think the days are called "a day", when one gets to Genesis 2:4, the first five a days tell the story of heaven and earth; but the story starts to tell the story of earth and heaven, and starts calling the last two days "the day". I think the first a day, the earth was still in the first heaven?
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
I believe Bible was meant mostly for spirtual teachings rather than giving a complete knowledge about God's creation.
I think If God was to reveal the mysteries of His creation, Books after Books must come to describe it, even if the human's mind can comprehend it. So, I think the genesis is simply showing the gradual creation by God and showing different levels of creation.
Also, I believe Bible verses have more than just one meaning. each verse can have several meaninings and several points can be learned from it.
The six days in Genesis in my understanding could also be interpreted as spirtual guidance in the past 6 ages.
For example
1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. "
May be interpreted as the earth was void from spirtuality. and darkness of ignorance were deep between people of the earth.
Then God sent His Spirit to bring Light of Guidance as it is written:
"1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
then God devided Truth from Error:
"and God divided the light from the darkness." 1:5
therefore every Age starts in the Morning of revelation of God, and finally ends in darkness of ignorance again:
1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."
Then when in the second Age, people were again sliped on the waters of ignorance, God brought the water of life, through the revelation of Noah, from the firmament to devide between the Error and Truth:
1:6 "And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters
from the waters."
Therefore God made the faith and guidance from His heaven and by the heaven of faith He devided between the earthly waters that cause slip from the heavenly waters of guidance:
"And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so." 1:8
Then at the end of second Age, the third revelation Day of God started, he again rained the waters of knowledge from heaven on earth, while he made the land dry to protect people from slip of error and to bring forth the spiritual fruits of love, patiance, forgivness,...:
1:9 "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."
and the other Days can be interpreted this way as stages of revelations.
I think If God was to reveal the mysteries of His creation, Books after Books must come to describe it, even if the human's mind can comprehend it. So, I think the genesis is simply showing the gradual creation by God and showing different levels of creation.
Also, I believe Bible verses have more than just one meaning. each verse can have several meaninings and several points can be learned from it.
The six days in Genesis in my understanding could also be interpreted as spirtual guidance in the past 6 ages.
For example
1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. "
May be interpreted as the earth was void from spirtuality. and darkness of ignorance were deep between people of the earth.
Then God sent His Spirit to bring Light of Guidance as it is written:
"1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
then God devided Truth from Error:
"and God divided the light from the darkness." 1:5
therefore every Age starts in the Morning of revelation of God, and finally ends in darkness of ignorance again:
1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."
Then when in the second Age, people were again sliped on the waters of ignorance, God brought the water of life, through the revelation of Noah, from the firmament to devide between the Error and Truth:
1:6 "And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters
from the waters."
Therefore God made the faith and guidance from His heaven and by the heaven of faith He devided between the earthly waters that cause slip from the heavenly waters of guidance:
"And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so." 1:8
Then at the end of second Age, the third revelation Day of God started, he again rained the waters of knowledge from heaven on earth, while he made the land dry to protect people from slip of error and to bring forth the spiritual fruits of love, patiance, forgivness,...:
1:9 "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."
and the other Days can be interpreted this way as stages of revelations.
What happen on the earth, while it was in the first heaven? Why did Yahweh have redo everything? Lucifer was behind what happen on the earth, while it was in the first heaven.
Ezekiel 28:11-15; Ezekiel charges that the king of Tyre has overstepped his bounds, because of his wealth; this king deemed his mind equal to a gods? Ezekiel is picturing this king as a quasi-mythical being in a bejeweled garden of Eden. The king boasts of his wisdom and beauty; Ezekiel employs the imagery of the garden of Eden story to describe the Tyrian kings downfall. Ezekiel employs the imagery of the cherub to stress the Tyrian kings power and high position; same as the once-perfect creature is shown to have sinned and therefore was struck down. But the figurative language Ezekiel is using is of a story of a garden of Eden, that Yahweh caused to grow on the earth, while the earth was in the first heaven. Although Ezekiel is telling all this to a Tyrian king, the story Ezekiel is using is neither allegory, myth, legend, nor fable, but literal historical facts set forth, and emphasized by the use of figures of speech.
Ezekiel tells in this garden story, that their was an individual that was a once-perfect creature. Yet, all the confusion of thought about this individual, have arisen from taking literally what is expressed by figures, or from taking figuratively what is literal. A figure of speech is never used except for the purpose of calling attention to, emphasizing, and intensifying, the reality of the literal sense, and the truth of the historical facts; so that, while the words employed may not be so strictly true to the letter, they are all the more true to the truth conveyed by them, and to the historical events connected with them. Here the story Ezekiel used of an individual==You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and flawless in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of Yahweh; every precious stone was your adornment; carnelian, chrysolite, and amethyst; beryl, lapis lazuli, and jasper; sapphire, turquoise, and emerald; and gold beautifully wrought for you, mined for you, prepared the day you were created. I created you as a cherub with outstretched shielding wings, and you resided on Yahwehs holy mountain; you walked among stones of fire. You were blameless in your ways, from the day you were created until wrongdoing was found in you.
Ezekiel 28:11-15; Ezekiel charges that the king of Tyre has overstepped his bounds, because of his wealth; this king deemed his mind equal to a gods? Ezekiel is picturing this king as a quasi-mythical being in a bejeweled garden of Eden. The king boasts of his wisdom and beauty; Ezekiel employs the imagery of the garden of Eden story to describe the Tyrian kings downfall. Ezekiel employs the imagery of the cherub to stress the Tyrian kings power and high position; same as the once-perfect creature is shown to have sinned and therefore was struck down. But the figurative language Ezekiel is using is of a story of a garden of Eden, that Yahweh caused to grow on the earth, while the earth was in the first heaven. Although Ezekiel is telling all this to a Tyrian king, the story Ezekiel is using is neither allegory, myth, legend, nor fable, but literal historical facts set forth, and emphasized by the use of figures of speech.
Ezekiel tells in this garden story, that their was an individual that was a once-perfect creature. Yet, all the confusion of thought about this individual, have arisen from taking literally what is expressed by figures, or from taking figuratively what is literal. A figure of speech is never used except for the purpose of calling attention to, emphasizing, and intensifying, the reality of the literal sense, and the truth of the historical facts; so that, while the words employed may not be so strictly true to the letter, they are all the more true to the truth conveyed by them, and to the historical events connected with them. Here the story Ezekiel used of an individual==You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and flawless in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of Yahweh; every precious stone was your adornment; carnelian, chrysolite, and amethyst; beryl, lapis lazuli, and jasper; sapphire, turquoise, and emerald; and gold beautifully wrought for you, mined for you, prepared the day you were created. I created you as a cherub with outstretched shielding wings, and you resided on Yahwehs holy mountain; you walked among stones of fire. You were blameless in your ways, from the day you were created until wrongdoing was found in you.
Dan4reason
Facts not Faith
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light, and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light day, and the darkness he called night. And there was evening, and there was morningthe first day.
The bible defines a day as having an evening and a morning. I think it pretty reasonable to assume that they meant 24 hours.
james2ko
Well-Known Member
I agree. There are a few other verses describing Satan's attempted coup and his subsequent destruction of the planet, after the initial creation in Gen 1:1.
Yahweh has a body that composed of a substance called spirit; and Yahweh has a life within himself that generates light, but Yahweh's body cannot contain this light, and this light just shines right through him. When the earth was in the first heaven, Yahweh was the only light source for the earth. Lucifer used to stay on the mountain of Yahweh their in heaven, so now their are two things going on in this first heaven, the earth on one side being lite by Yahweh; and on the other side is Yahweh and all his stuff, his throne, his tent, the 24 elders.
So when Yahweh wanted to go to the earth and hang out with whatever was in that garden, Yahweh would go to his mountain and go into his cherub, Lucifer, and Lucifer would carrie Yahweh to the garden. So who lite the earth if Yahweh's light is being shielded by Lucifer, all the angels, but it took all the angels to do it. The angels bodys are composed of a substance called spirit; and the angels have a life within themselves that generate light, but it took all the angles to light the earth. One day Yahweh went to go into his cherub, Lucifer, Lucifer had different plans. It seems Lucifer is in charge of one-third of these angles, so Lucifer and his angles went to the earth, and forced Yahweh to light the earth, it took all the angles to light the earth.
Cool stuff was going on the earth, when it was in the first heaven?
Ben Masada
Well-Known Member
The second option might have been more probable. Perhaps periods of millions of years. The reference to days of 24 hours in the Genesis account of Creation is made with the intent to establish the Shabbat as a day to be kept holy.
Ben
ellenjanuary
Well-Known Member
I think this is the guy...
[youtube]gRxEeHFHc-Y[/youtube]
An hour-long tale of how, from god's point of view, six days become 15.5 billion years in our point of view. Yeah, it was before the agreed-upon 13.7 currently in vogue; but it's a cool story.
[youtube]gRxEeHFHc-Y[/youtube]
An hour-long tale of how, from god's point of view, six days become 15.5 billion years in our point of view. Yeah, it was before the agreed-upon 13.7 currently in vogue; but it's a cool story.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
I think this is the guy...
[youtube]gRxEeHFHc-Y[/youtube]
An hour-long tale of how, from god's point of view, six days become 15.5 billion years in our point of view. Yeah, it was before the agreed-upon 13.7 currently in vogue; but it's a cool story.
that was great thanks for the link!