How Would You Reform Islam?

[psychoslice]

If Islam is truly Gods people, then why would they need reforming, would the answer be their not?.

 

[beenie]

Personally speaking, I don't believe the Islam can be reformed.

I think Islam could be reformed, but Muslims won't allow it. Sure, there are some who would agree to a reformation, but they will be ostracized and another sect would be necessary... and they would be called "hypocrites" or "traitors" or "not real Muslims"... blah blah blah

If I could reform Islam, I would get rid of 90% of the Hadith that promotes the ill-treatment of women and non-Muslims, and I would go back to the idea that people can extrapolate for themselves rather than be subjected to the narrow-minded, illiterate, power-seeking mullahs that insult the religion with their idiocy. Women would be allowed to be imams, and for the umpteenth time, women could decide for themselves what to wear, what education they want, what job to have, and they would be equal partners in their marriages. They could marry who they want, when they want. Much of that would be solved by ridding Islam of most of the Ahadith and going back to simplicity. The Qur'an is much more vague, which leaves the door open for interpretation. That's healthier than relying on Hadith to spell it out (often wrongly).

Organized religion is a scary concept to me and always has been, as it's the people that ruin it for everyone. Islam as a whole, without Hadith and people's warped interpretations, isn't all that different than other religions.

Take off the garb and you really can't tell the difference anymore.

 

[Gordian Knot]

Moishe, I am not familiar with what went on in Spain during this period. It is my understanding the center of Islam at this time was in Constantinople - that is where scholars from all fields and faiths were welcome.

On your last comment about the government denigrating Christian folk - I simply cannot agree. What with all the efforts of government supporting so called faith based initiatives, using tax dollars to send children to private religious schools, stating that one person's religious beliefs give them the right to not serve a segment of the population because it goes against their faith, companies not wanting to give some types of insurance to their employees because that goes against the owner's religious beliefs - the list goes on and on.

 

[Moishe3rd]

Moishe, I am not familiar with what went on in Spain during this period. It is my understanding the center of Islam at this time was in Constantinople - that is where scholars from all fields and faiths were welcome.

Constantinople was not conquered by Muslims until 1453. It then became Istanbul.
During the so called "Golden Age" of Islam, which was as I described, the capital of the Abbasid Empire was Baghdad and the capital of Muslim Spain was Cordoba.
The Abbasid Empire was "the" Muslim Empire at the time, ruling most of the Islamic world until the Fatimids broke away, beginning in Egypt.
The "science" achieved by the Abbasids and Fatimids was significant but remained somewhat isolated with the main scholars being Muslim and living in Baghdad and Cairo.
Whereas the "Golden Age" of Spain encompassed most of al-Andalus and drew on a wide variety of scholars and philosophers including many, many Jews and Christians.

On your last comment about the government denigrating Christian folk - I simply cannot agree. What with all the efforts of government supporting so called faith based initiatives, using tax dollars to send children to private religious schools, stating that one person's religious beliefs give them the right to not serve a segment of the population because it goes against their faith, companies not wanting to give some types of insurance to their employees because that goes against the owner's religious beliefs - the list goes on and on.

I disagree that this means that the "government" favors Christianity.
Most governmental institutions and government supported institutions (such as schools and universities) are actively opposed to religion in general and Christianity in particular.
The current administration stymies "faith based initiatives;" discourages or disallows "using tax dollars to send children to private religious schools," and, the allowance for not forcing people to abrogate their religious beliefs is part of the Constitution of the United States of America.

 

[seeking4truth]

Constantinople was not conquered by Muslims until 1453. It then became Istanbul.
During the so called "Golden Age" of Islam, which was as I described, the capital of the Abbasid Empire was Baghdad and the capital of Muslim Spain was Cordoba.
The Abbasid Empire was "the" Muslim Empire at the time, ruling most of the Islamic world until the Fatimids broke away, beginning in Egypt.
The "science" achieved by the Abbasids and Fatimids was significant but remained somewhat isolated with the main scholars being Muslim and living in Baghdad and Cairo.
Whereas the "Golden Age" of Spain encompassed most of al-Andalus and drew on a wide variety of scholars and philosophers including many, many Jews and Christians.
(QUOTE]


The Golden Age of Muslims and the Renaissance in Europe which brought it out of the Dark Ages depended on the development and combination of all known knowledge - Persian, Greek, Jewish, Christian, Arab, African and European. Translation of Greek texts to Arabic was done in large part by Jews.

 

[Muffled]

What I meant by reforming muslims meant being a practicing muslim. I don't know how would "today's muslims" view that. But becoming a real muslim is the correct thing to do.

I don't beleive it is possible for a person to become a real Muslim without Jesus but I do agree that it is a worthy objective. I believe I have Jesus in me so I could help if someone really wished to reform.

 

[Muffled]

I see some people try to force their opinions on others as facts

I for one believe Islam does not need reformation, but only so many Muslims do. I'm saying "believe", not saying "does not, period".

Those saying Islam does need reformation are expressing their opinions only. It does not state any facts.

Please be considerate!

I read the Qu'ran from an edition that was in my library. I believe the commentary at the bottom of the page was authorized by someone in Saudi Arabia. The Holy Spirit stopped me from reading the comentary because it terribly distorted the Qu'ran. If orthodox Islam believes what is in that commentary then it definitely needs reformation.

Where would one start? How about the absolutely confused view of Christianity that I believe one sees from Islam these days?

I believe I would not be revealing the love of Jesus if I did not consider ones feelings about this but as painful as the truth is I believe it is necessary for ones spiritual good health.

 

[Muffled]

when islame say the ouran download from god there fore the islame can not reform

I believe that but I also believe that todays Islam does not adhere to the Qu'ram mostly due to misinterpretations.

It is like that with the Bible as well. It does not change but there are a myriad of beliefs based on it due to misinterpretations.

 

[YmirGF]

I think Islam could be reformed, but Muslims won't allow it. Sure, there are some who would agree to a reformation, but they will be ostracized and another sect would be necessary... and they would be called "hypocrites" or "traitors" or "not real Muslims"... blah blah blah

Exactly. And a whole lot of spilled blood for daring to innovate

If I could reform Islam, I would get rid of 90% of the Hadith that promotes the ill-treatment of women and non-Muslims, and I would go back to the idea that people can extrapolate for themselves rather than be subjected to the narrow-minded, illiterate, power-seeking mullahs that insult the religion with their idiocy. Women would be allowed to be imams, and for the umpteenth time, women could decide for themselves what to wear, what education they want, what job to have, and they would be equal partners in their marriages. They could marry who they want, when they want. Much of that would be solved by ridding Islam of most of the Ahadith and going back to simplicity. The Qur'an is much more vague, which leaves the door open for interpretation. That's healthier than relying on Hadith to spell it out (often wrongly).

Although I agree 100% I don't see how it would become possible. These are centuries old cultural issues, backed up by centuries of religious opinions. My guess is the Muslims will begin to reject the old ways and move to embrace modernity, but the cost will be very high. That's why I think that the outmoded ideas about human sexuality will finally be what brings Islam to its knees.

Organized religion is a scary concept to me and always has been, as it's the people that ruin it for everyone. Islam as a whole, without Hadith and people's warped interpretations, isn't all that different than other religions.

To be fair, if you remove all the bad stuff from Mein Kampf, it too is pretty benign reading.

 

[illykitty]

I don't think Islam is all that bad, if you focus less on the Hadiths and more on the Qur'an. It's much less rigid when you shift the focus. There's still things that I don't agree with (otherwise I'd be a Qur'an focusing Muslim) but it's a lot better.

Personally, I had issues with the Hadiths when I was trying to practice Islam. So I would probably reform Islam to remove most. Could keep neutral harmless ones (for example prayer instructions) if people liked these, plus it's easier to some to follow a prescribed method, as long as it's not against the Qur'an.

Like ssainhu, I think women should be given more freedom and equality. More tolerance of non-Muslims too "To you is your religion, and to me is my religion".

 

[LuisDantas]

If Islam is truly Gods people, then why would they need reforming, would the answer be their not?.

One possible, even likely reason, would be because God wants its people to exercise their discernment as opposed to be in passive acceptance of whatever their current understanding of His will happens to be at any given moment.

I don't know whether such a take, sensible as it seems to be to me, is conciliable with the actual text of the Quran, though.

 

[icehorse]

How do you guys compare "mainstream" Islamic values to "mainstream" secular values - compare and contrast?

Full disclosure, this is yet another attempt to get a sense of Islamic values. Not the easy ones, but the contentious ones like:

- Do mainstream Muslims value Islam over equality for all?
- Do mainstream Muslims value Islam over freedom of speech?

 

[Shia Islam]

What do you suppose the odds are that Islamic reform movements will, over perhaps the next 50 years, bring about a general liberalization of Islam?

How would you compare those odds to the odds that Islamic reform movements will over a similar time frame bring about a general retrenchment of conservative Islam?

Do you think any liberalization of Islam will to any great extent echo the European Enlightenment -- say, in adopting the Enlightenment principle that customs and practices must be based on reason, rather than merely customary or traditional? Or in adopting the Enlightenment principle that there ought to be a separation of religion and government?

BONUS QUESTION: If you were going to reform Islam, how exactly would you reform it?

With respect,

The problem with many Christians -or people influenced by the Christian west- is that they tend to compare Islam to Christianity.

Such people need to pay some effort to study Islam- and especially Shia Islam which is used to be overlooked by such people- to understand that Islam is a completely different story than Christianity.

Best regards

 

[YmirGF]

With respect,

The problem with many Christians -or people influenced by the Christian west- is that they tend to compare Islam to Christianity.

Such people need to pay some effort to study Islam- and especially Shia Islam which is used to be overlooked by such people- to understand that Islam is a completely different story than Christianity.

Best regards

I've made that very point a few times. People tend to think, mistakenly, that Islam is just like Christianity. Um, it's not.

 

[paarsurrey]

How Would You Reform Islam?

Islam is already reformed under Ahmadiyya true Islam.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 did this task.
Regards

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

Destroy Wahhabism utterly and promote Sufism, Ahmadiyya and Mu'tazili ideas instead.

 

[MARCELLO]

I have my transit flights many times from Istanbul and spent some time there. Millions of muslims seem to have achieved a sort of reform islam there. Also same in Lebanon.

So do not say it is impossible.

 

[DawudTalut]

.......BONUS QUESTION: If you were going to reform Islam, how exactly would you reform it?

Peace be on you.
1=By bringing up real Islamic teaching.
2=Endings wars on the name of religion.
3=Human development.
4=Inter-nation, inter-faith harmony.
5=Ending the negative role of mullah (extremist clergies who play in the hands of politicians) and some of their madrasas (who are producing religious students who are inapt to live in contemporary world) in society.


The whole DIR addresses the issue in the Divine Light in Latter days.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forums/ahmadiyya-dir.327/

 

[MARCELLO]

I have a question for native arabic speakers,is the language of Koran easily understandable for an average arabic speaker?

 

[Smart_Guy]

I have a question for native arabic speakers,is the language of Koran easily understandable for an average arabic speaker?

Basically, yes. It just requires normal education just like any other language does. It also has some words that has to be check up just as any other language does as well. I mean, even some native English speakers don't know some words like turban, chandelier and chimney