"Humans are born as atheists"

[bobhikes]

The default is atheism. You need to develop a specific idea of God, what that being is like, etc. to be considered a theist. babies have no such ideas until they are taught.

So atheists are the equivalent of monkeys, Apple trees and worms default atheists. I wouldn't consider it a valuable term then.

 

[Skwim]

It's worth it to have an image blocker in your browser.​

Far too many images I enjoy getting, but thanks for the suggestion.

 

[1137]

Of course babies are atheists. You have to teach someone to believe in a God. You think if you left a baby in a vacuum they would somehow know about Yahweh and Jesus, or Allah or Buddha? Of course not.

Each and every one of you religious people has been indoctrinated into the religion of your parents. Without the early teaching of your religion, you wouldn't be in your religion and you wouldn't miss it.

To the few of you that have converted, you still wouldn't have been whatever your original religion was without early indoctrination.

If we didn't teach babies about Jesus, one generation later there would be zero Christians.

This is a common argument. Of course if we're born atheists and require indoctrination, we'd never have theism, so the argument completely fails. Unless you accept that experience do lead to belief, prior to indoctrination, which opens a can of worms most atheists don't want to open.

 

[1137]

So are you saying that they are born believing in God?

Because if not, they are atheists until they are indoctrinated by parents, religious leaders, etc.

The are born entirely ignorant and incapable of being either a theist or atheist, just as a rock is neither theist or atheist.

 

[Yerda]

Unless you accept that experience do lead to belief, prior to indoctrination, which opens a can of worms most atheists don't want to open.

Let's open it and see if the worms are alive.

 

[Grumpuss]

Of course babies are atheists. You have to teach someone to believe in a God. You think if you left a baby in a vacuum they would somehow know about Yahweh and Jesus, or Allah or Buddha? Of course not.

Each and every one of you religious people has been indoctrinated into the religion of your parents. Without the early teaching of your religion, you wouldn't be in your religion and you wouldn't miss it.

To the few of you that have converted, you still wouldn't have been whatever your original religion was without early indoctrination.

If we didn't teach babies about Jesus, one generation later there would be zero Christians.

One's faith can begin long before society claims we are cognizant of our own choices. Baptism bridges the gap to God from infancy, though it's likely God watches us and loves us all already. The gleam in the eye of a child need not be quantified as "atheist" (conscious choice to withdraw from belief in God) or "zealot". At some level, the child knows. This is how they develop morals to live by IMO and don't end up as sociopaths or deviants.

 

[Grumpuss]

So atheists are the equivalent of monkeys, Apple trees and worms default atheists. I wouldn't consider it a valuable term then.

Like calling a straight woman a "cis- female" or regular coffee "caffeinated". Far too much introspection.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some people believe that babies are atheists. I find their belief in this to be as flawed......

It's not so bad being flawed if it makes sense.
I was born an atheist.
Why?
I was born not believing.
Eventually, I became aware that I didn't believe.
I remained a non-believer.
So I was born what I am...I just didn't know it yet.

Does this apply to every baby, including the ones who eventually become believers?
Perhaps not.
This lack of general applicability is indeed a flaw.

 

[Altfish]

The are born entirely ignorant and incapable of being either a theist or atheist, just as a rock is neither theist or atheist.

But, to believe in a god you have to be told the stories, preached the sermons, etc.
If the baby never received any such teaching, no stories of gods and reached (say) 16-years old would he/she then be an atheist?

 

[`mud]

When I can hear trumpets coming from heaven,
and see angels with wings dancing on pin points,
or see the size of any god's throne,
then and only then will I..........
so silly....not worth the effort,
NuffStuff
'mud

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Do babies believe there is no god? Do babies deny there is a god? Do babies reject the claim that god exists? Do babies dismiss the idea of god? Do babies challenge the notion of god?

These are all things atheists commonly do. Name one thing babies do that puts them in the same camp as atheists. (It should be pointed out that mere lack of belief doesn't necessarily make an atheist; dogs and cats also lack a belief in god.)


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A baby does not have the word god (nor hidden agent) or concept of the two in his or her world.

That baby has what he senses with his five senses etc. He understands life from the nature of his mother. There is no abstract language. No judgement of a philisophical concept as complex like god when he is still trying to figure out what Pop Corn feels like and why he cant chew steyrophone.

He has no belief in god (lacks it) because it is not in his worldview. He is an atheist.

Then when his mother or father starts using language and refering to aspects of his life and identity to a word called "god" he starts inpersonalizing what cant be seen. That is when he learns about god.

Becoming an plain atheist is like going back to your fresh state of mind where belief in deities didnt exist at age 2. Its like whiping dirt (as some people see it) caked up on glass and they become atheist later when they wash it clean...

Like it was before or to begin with.

How can a baby not lack belief in something he was not aware of to begin with?

 

[sojourner]

Of course babies are atheists. You have to teach someone to believe in a God. You think if you left a baby in a vacuum they would somehow know about Yahweh and Jesus, or Allah or Buddha? Of course not.

Each and every one of you religious people has been indoctrinated into the religion of your parents. Without the early teaching of your religion, you wouldn't be in your religion and you wouldn't miss it.

To the few of you that have converted, you still wouldn't have been whatever your original religion was without early indoctrination.

If we didn't teach babies about Jesus, one generation later there would be zero Christians.

However, science does show that the human brain seems hard-wired for belief. I think such a child in a vacuum would develop a higher sense of the spiritual on her/his own, perhaps devoid of the usual mythological framework, but a sense of the spiritual, nonetheless. I think people are inherently hungry for the spiritual -- whatever it is for them. Religion is simply the window-dressing.

 

[Skwim]

A baby does not have the word god (nor hidden agent) or concept of the two in his or her world.

That baby has what he senses with his five senses etc. He understands life from the nature of his mother. There is no abstract language. No judgement of a philisophical concept as complex like god when he is still trying to figure out what Pop Corn feels like and why he cant chew steyrophone.

He has no belief in god (lacks it) because it is not in his worldview. He is an atheist.

Like a dog or cat is an atheist, or a rock is an atheist, or Rockefeller Center is an atheist.


.

 

[Grumpuss]

A baby does not have the word god (nor hidden agent) or concept of the two in his or her world.

That baby has what he senses with his five senses etc. He understands life from the nature of his mother. There is no abstract language. No judgement of a philisophical concept as complex like god when he is still trying to figure out what Pop Corn feels like and why he cant chew steyrophone.

He has no belief in god (lacks it) because it is not in his worldview. He is an atheist.

Then when his mother or father starts using language and refering to aspects of his life and identity to a word called "god" he starts inpersonalizing what cant be seen. That is when he learns about god.

Becoming an plain atheist is like going back to your fresh state of mind where belief in deities didnt exist at age 2. Its like whiping dirt (as some people see it) caked up on glass and they become atheist later when they wash it clean...

Like it was before or to begin with.

How can a baby not lack belief in something he was not aware of to begin with?

Apologies, but claiming to know what goes on in the mind of a baby is similar to claiming to know God's shoe size or how many stars there are in the universe...

 

[First Baseman]

When I can hear trumpets coming from heaven,
and see angels with wings dancing on pin points,
or see the size of any god's throne,
then and only then will I..........
so silly....not worth the effort,
NuffStuff
'mud

Hey, man, you stole that avatar from a friend of mine! Give it back!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It's not so bad being flawed if it makes sense.
I was born an atheist.
Why?
I was born not believing.
Eventually, I became aware that I didn't believe.
I remained a non-believer.
So I was born what I am...I just didn't know it yet.

Does this apply to every baby?
Perhaps, but they're not the kind of non-believer who is aware of the issue.

Yeah, I've heard all the arguments. Still haven't heard one which convinces me that calling babies atheists is applicable or meaningful.

 

[sojourner]

The default is atheism. You need to develop a specific idea of God, what that being is like, etc. to be considered a theist. babies have no such ideas until they are taught.

It seems to me that atheism is a position of rejection. That is, it's predicated on a rejection of mythological constructs as ontologically true. Can an infant take such cognitive positions?

 

[Skwim]

However, science does show that the human brain seems hard-wired for belief.

Specifically for religious belief? Got some evidence or links?


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[allfoak]

The only reason this ever comes up, I think, is so that we atheists can assume we hold the default position and constantly lob demands for evidence every time we see something we don't agree with (or suspect it is the kind of thing that we probably don't agree with). We're devious like that.

What that amounts to is being a troll under the bridge and it keeps people from sharing things that they would otherwise share for fear of ridicule.
We all know that there is no tangible proof for the existence of God.
The continued bullying of people over it really should stop.
Where is the respect?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Like a dog or cat is an atheist, or a rock is an atheist, or Rockefeller Center is an atheist.


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If they lack belief in god, yes they are. Atheist is usually used for people, though. Given a rock cant be indoctrinated into theism. Guess it remains an atheist.