"Humans are born as atheists"

[1137]

Apologies, but claiming to know what goes on in the mind of a baby is similar to claiming to know God's shoe size or how many stars there are in the universe...

Perhaps you've heard of "psychology" in passing somewhere?

 

[sojourner]

Specifically for religious belief? Got some evidence or links?


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Not for specific religious beliefs, but for generalized "something is greater than I" beliefs. I remember reading an article, but unfortunately can't remember what or where. My bad!

 

[sojourner]

It's not so bad being flawed if it makes sense.
I was born an atheist.
Why?
I was born not believing.
Eventually, I became aware that I didn't believe.
I remained a non-believer.
So I was born what I am...I just didn't know it yet.

Does this apply to every baby, including the ones who eventually become believers?
Perhaps not.
This lack of general applicability is indeed a flaw.

Is atheism a lack of belief? Or is it the belief that deities are non-existent?

 

[Valjean]

No, I'm sorry, but they aren't. I have no idea where this idea could have come from other then poor reasoning or ignorance of psychology. The entire concept of there being or not being a god is abstract, and requires abstract reasoning. An object that cannot think about such questions, such as plants, would never be considered atheists with intellectual honesty....

Beside the simple fact that kids have no idea what we're even really discussing, the fact is that atheism requires making a judgement call.

You're working from an incorrect definition of "atheism," my friend. "Atheist," unmodified, refers simply to a lack of God belief. You're working from a specialised definition: "strong atheist."
An atheist does not necessarily believe that God doesn't exist. An atheist can be entirely ignorant of the whole concept. This is the sense intended when people claim that babies are born atheist. You're trying to impute an entirely different working definition to the discussion.
Yes -- babies are not strong atheists, but they are basic, or weak atheists.

Gotta disagree. Atheist have knowledge of what they are denying, babies do not. They are no more atheists than they're a-atheists, which would amount to being theists.

Again, a straw man. Atheists are denying nothing and need not have any knowledge of the concept of God to be atheists.
You and the people making the claim are working from different definitions of the term. Both sides are right -- given the definition they're working from, but if you continue to pretend that your opposition is working from your definition you'll be talking past each other forever.


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[Revoltingest]

Yeah, I've heard all the arguments. Still haven't heard one which convinces me that calling babies atheists is applicable or meaningful.

Neither have I.

 

[Revoltingest]

Is atheism a lack of belief? Or is it the belief that deities are non-existent?

It is both, the former being "agnosticism".

 

[`mud]

When I was about 11 years old,
a nun told me that there was an angel on my shoulder,
I tried to knock it off, and she hit my knuckles with her ruler.
She told me I was going to go to hell,
she's dead now, I wonder where she is !
Silly story.....but true...Then I became an atheist !
~
'mud

 

[allfoak]

There are two camps.
One says that children are born with an empty head that needs filling.
The other says that we are all born with a source of knowledge within and we just need to teach children how to access it.
There are plenty of arguments for both sides.

 

[Valjean]

Is atheism a lack of belief? Or is it the belief that deities are non-existent?

Basic atheism, in the sense used by most atheists and certainly by those proposing that we're born atheist and later learn religion, is simply a lackof belief.
There are, however, some more 'militant' atheists who assert that God does not exist. This is the atheism those opposing the idea of "born atheist" are trying to extend to cover all of atheism.

 

[Grumpuss]

Perhaps you've heard of "psychology" in passing somewhere?

No. Do people worship it as an exact science?

 

[Jumi]

Far too many images I enjoy getting, but thanks for the suggestion.

Don't block all images, just the ones you don't want to see again. I block all the animated ones at least.

 

[Valjean]

Kilgore Trout said: ↑
Yeah, I've heard all the arguments. Still haven't heard one which convinces me that calling babies atheists is applicable or meaningful.

No-one's arguing that the appellation need be meaningful, just apt.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Apologies, but claiming to know what goes on in the mind of a baby is similar to claiming to know God's shoe size or how many stars there are in the universe...

Its psychology and biology and common sense.

Ask a infant who god is when he hasnt formed the language and connection of who is mother is to him.

Ask a two year old to define jesus. He'd probably think he "looks just like daddy"

Until there is language foundation (and hopefully healthy functioning of the brain) and so forth, there is no concept of god. It a complex word. On RF No one can settle on a single characteristic "god" has without their personal beliefs and bias influencing it.

And most of us are adults.



If Im a child and in a play pin with four toys: Barney, Smurf, GIJoe, and Barbie and a stranger says

"Do you believe there is a Heman Toy waiting for you at Toys R Us (Kid Store)?"

I look around the play pin. I see only whats been given to me and what I am told these objects are. Anything else: Polypocket, Trolls, Hemans, dont exist until Im aware of it or it just isnt real.

I am a theist to barbie. I believe it exist.
I am an atheist to heman. I dont believe he exist. Better yet, I cant believe he exist.

Same with god.

Infants cant believe something they dont know about. Thats why they lack belief.

 

[Jumi]

Is atheism a lack of belief? Or is it the belief that deities are non-existent?

Both of those are non-believers.

 

[Maponos]

Why do atheists always have to reinforce their religion by forcing it on people who have no idea what it is? It's like forcing people to be feminist if they have some beliefs that are in line with the general feminist definition.

 

[Valjean]

There are two camps.
One says that children are born with an empty head that needs filling.
The other says that we are all born with a source of knowledge within and we just need to teach children how to access it.
There are plenty of arguments for both sides.

Just to clarify, how are you defining "source of knowledge?" Do you mean an innate capacity for knowledge, like Chomsky's Language Acquisition Device (LAD), or are you proposing an actual encyclopaedia-of-all-knowledge ensconsed somewhere in a newborn's brain?

 

[George-ananda]

To call a baby a theist or an atheist on an issue he doesn't understand is meaningless.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When I was about 11 years old,
a nun told me that there was an angel on my shoulder,
I tried to knock it off, and she hit my knuckles with her ruler.
She told me I was going to go to hell,
she's dead now, I wonder where she is !
Silly story.....but true...Then I became an atheist !
~
'mud

Aaww.

 

[Jumi]

Why do atheists always have to reinforce their religion by forcing it on people who have no idea what it is?

Tell me more about this atheism religion and what it entails.

 

[Valjean]

Why do atheists always have to reinforce their religion by forcing it on people who have no idea what it is? It's like forcing people to be feminist if they have some beliefs that are in line with the general feminist definition.

Jeez -- where do I start?
First, atheism is not a religion, any more than a lack of belief in martian unicorn herds is a religion.
Second, who's forcing anything on anyone? I'm an atheist, and the only people who are even aware of this are here online. The subject rarely comes up in normal conversation.
The only time 99% of atheists would ever preach to you is if you had brought up the subject.