Humans did NOT evolve from the common ancestor of Apes

[Riverwolf]

You may have drawn your conclusion premature.

So? Maybe you have, too.

Or do you just say that because the conclusion I've reached is different from yours, and that you'll only consider my argument well-thought-out once I agree with you?

One life?....and it has to be terminal?
well.....physically.....yes.

One life continuing beyond the breathe you now have?
I think so.
Too many learning devices walking about.
Billions of souls and you insist no one will continue?
Not one chance in billions?

I didn't say there'd be no continuation, nor did I insist that no one will continue.

I simply said that there's no indication that we survive bodily death, and therefore it makes the most sense to live as though we only had one life.

For the record, the conception of the "soul" that I've been regarding as most likely is that it's not a singular thing, anyway, but an aggregate of many things that, like the body, splits upon death. Where do they go? Even the Gods can't say.

I think you made your conclusion premature.

But then comes that other scenario....you can't get out of your body.
In the box it goes....and into the ground.
Eternal darkness is physically real.
Premature burial.

And my brain would not be actively processing information, therefore I'd not even be aware.

 

[Thief]

So? Maybe you have, too.

Or do you just say that because the conclusion I've reached is different from yours, and that you'll only consider my argument well-thought-out once I agree with you?

I didn't say there'd be no continuation, nor did I insist that no one will continue.

I simply said that there's no indication that we survive bodily death, and therefore it makes the most sense to live as though we only had one life.

For the record, the conception of the "soul" that I've been regarding as most likely is that it's not a singular thing, anyway, but an aggregate of many things that, like the body, splits upon death. Where do they go? Even the Gods can't say.

And my brain would not be actively processing information, therefore I'd not even be aware.

So far the discussion turns about....you and I.
(much like another thread....and that guy doesn't believe in himself!)

Not aware?
I have no doubt you would be VERY aware.
Especially in a state of solitude.

Here in this life you have this word....and the word of anyone else caring to speak.

If you cannot escape your body....you will lay very still....in your own thoughts.

Some people say dead men don't dream.
What if they do?.....and can't wake up?

 

[McBell]

It's 2014. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

At first I laughed, cause I was certain he was joking.

Then I cried, cause he is serious.

 

[samosasauce]

This is very true concerning a Christian interpretation of your Bible. Now remember, however, many evolutionists do not believe your holy book is, well, as holy as you make it out to be. I'm not trying to insult you, it just seems like you may have to find more ways to argue your point.

 

[LuisDantas]

Been blind seven days....did not stop 'seeing'
I've known my limbs without touch or response.....did not stop 'feeling'

Correct incentive?.....and you were about to explain that?

I see that no, you can not accept things as they are. Too bad.

 

[Aman777]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aman777
Dear Riverwolf, Because I read it in Genesis chapter 10.

No, no, no.

What physical evidence is there?

Dear Riverwolf, There is NO physical evidence because today's Science is STILL ignorant of the difference between Human and animal intelligence. They should get busy and find the difference instead of living in the darkness of their own minds, which they have freely chosen.
Quote:
Not really since the sons of God were evolved Apes, who were brought forth from the Water, exactly as Science has learned. Adam was made the 3rd Day Gen 2:4-7 and the sons of God came "Naturally" from the water, on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21 What this shows is that Adam's intelligence level was much greater than ANY creature , made from the water, could Naturally evolve. ONLY Adam's descendants are Human.
Quote:
Since then, in LESS than 1% of the time since mankind diverged from Chimps, the descendants of Adam (Humans) have gone from Caves to the Moon and back safely, because Humans did NOT evolve from Apes.

You have not provided any physical evidence for any of these claims.

Therefore, I have no reason to differ from the scientific consensus that we are, in fact, apes.

If they told you that you were a Buffalo, I'm sure that you would accept that too, since Humans have eyes and ears, just like Buffaloes. Right? Many Scientists are so afraid of a Righteous Judgment, they will believe ANYthing.

Quote:
Sure, and it all just happened in less than 1% of the time since prehistoric people diverged from the common ancestor of Apes. It's all just because Nature Magically changed Apes into Humans. Right?

Wrong. There's nothing magic about it. And humans weren't changed from apes, humans are apes.

Wrong, but by the time Evols listen, it will be too late for them. Then they will spend Eternity kicking themselves in the hind end for being so willingly ignorant of the Truth.

We share the exact same DNA with the people you speak of. We know this because we can look at the DNA contained in the fossils of ancient humans, and compare them with modern humans. In fact, we can even trace ancestry. The oldest complete skeleton in Britain, Chedder Man (from about 9,000 years ago during Britain's Mesolithic; meaning no cities or crops), has at least two descendents living in Chedder Village. Many, but not all, humans also share DNA with Neanderthals, indicating that we interbred with them; that would have been tricky 10,000 years ago, since Neanderthals were long extinct by that point.

It's the same today, since the sons of God (prehistoric people) married Noah's descendants and produced today's Humans, who have the blood of the sons of God (and the DNA of the common ancestor of Apes) in their DNA, even though there have been NO sons of God (prehistoric people) for thousands of years, now.

If you believe in breeding programs, you believe in all the biological components necessary for biological evolution. If you believe that environment can have an impact on the development of a species over time, you believe in natural selection. Since there's no physical indication whatsoever that humans are somehow favorite on this scale, there's no indication that we are any different in this regard. All the fossil evidence, genetic evidence, and archaeological evidence points directly to us being apes.

I believe in Evolution, since the first recorded words out of Adam's mouth, were these:

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Two separate creatures become ONE in their Offspring, EXACTLY as True Evolution teaches. It's HOW Evolution is measured, since Evolution is the measured change in the allele frequency over time within a population, which is NOTHING more than changes within His (Jesus) kinds. The False belief that Humans evolved from Apes is the Biggest Satanic Lie in the History of Human civilization, and has NOTHING to do with natural selection since Apes don't Magically change into Humans, no matter how many Bumpkins Truly believe that they do. There is a Sucker born every minute.

Scientifically, there is NOTHING to measure, since intelligence is invisible.
Historically, the following shows that Humans first appeared on this Planet some 10k years ago. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE
Scripturally, it is shown that Humans were made BILLIONS of years before ANY other living creature, including Apes. Gen 2:4-7

Therefore, Scientifically, Historically, and Scripturally, Humans evolving from Apes is IMPOSSIBLE except in the minds of Godless men who are terribly afraid of a Righteous Judgment, which will surely separate the good from the evil, and show that the motivation for such a Belief is because they love evil more than good. Psa 52:3 God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[McBell]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aman777
Dear Riverwolf, Because I read it in Genesis chapter 10.



Dear Riverwolf, There is NO physical evidence because today's Science is STILL ignorant of the difference between Human and animal intelligence. They should get busy and find the difference instead of living in the darkness of their own minds, which they have freely chosen.
Quote:
Not really since the sons of God were evolved Apes, who were brought forth from the Water, exactly as Science has learned. Adam was made the 3rd Day Gen 2:4-7 and the sons of God came "Naturally" from the water, on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21 What this shows is that Adam's intelligence level was much greater than ANY creature , made from the water, could Naturally evolve. ONLY Adam's descendants are Human.
Quote:
Since then, in LESS than 1% of the time since mankind diverged from Chimps, the descendants of Adam (Humans) have gone from Caves to the Moon and back safely, because Humans did NOT evolve from Apes.


If they told you that you were a Buffalo, I'm sure that you would accept that too, since Humans have eyes and ears, just like Buffaloes. Right? Many Scientists are so afraid of a Righteous Judgment, they will believe ANYthing.

Quote:
Sure, and it all just happened in less than 1% of the time since prehistoric people diverged from the common ancestor of Apes. It's all just because Nature Magically changed Apes into Humans. Right?


Wrong, but by the time Evols listen, it will be too late for them. Then they will spend Eternity kicking themselves in the hind end for being so willingly ignorant of the Truth.



It's the same today, since the sons of God (prehistoric people) married Noah's descendants and produced today's Humans, who have the blood of the sons of God (and the DNA of the common ancestor of Apes) in their DNA, even though there have been NO sons of God (prehistoric people) for thousands of years, now.



I believe in Evolution, since the first recorded words out of Adam's mouth, were these:

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Two separate creatures become ONE in their Offspring, EXACTLY as True Evolution teaches. It's HOW Evolution is measured, since Evolution is the measured change in the allele frequency over time within a population, which is NOTHING more than changes within His (Jesus) kinds. The False belief that Humans evolved from Apes is the Biggest Satanic Lie in the History of Human civilization, and has NOTHING to do with natural selection since Apes don't Magically change into Humans, no matter how many Bumpkins Truly believe that they do. There is a Sucker born every minute.

Scientifically, there is NOTHING to measure, since intelligence is invisible.
Historically, the following shows that Humans first appeared on this Planet some 10k years ago. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE
Scripturally, it is shown that Humans were made BILLIONS of years before ANY other living creature, including Apes. Gen 2:4-7

Therefore, Scientifically, Historically, and Scripturally, Humans evolving from Apes is IMPOSSIBLE except in the minds of Godless men who are terribly afraid of a Righteous Judgment, which will surely separate the good from the evil, and show that the motivation for such a Belief is because they love evil more than good. Psa 52:3 God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

This is nothing but you chasing your own tail.

 

[Sapiens]

This is nothing but you chasing your own tail.

Err ... chasing his own tale.

 

[Riverwolf]

So far the discussion turns about....you and I.
(much like another thread....and that guy doesn't believe in himself!)

Not aware?
I have no doubt you would be VERY aware.
Especially in a state of solitude.

Here in this life you have this word....and the word of anyone else caring to speak.

If you cannot escape your body....you will lay very still....in your own thoughts.

Some people say dead men don't dream.
What if they do?.....and can't wake up?

And what if they can wake up and walk around, playing tricks on the living? Or what if they go to Candy Land?

Making judgments based entirely on "what ifs" is not a very good way to do it.

You "have no doubt", but you've not given me any reason to have anything BUT doubt.

 

[Riverwolf]

Dear Riverwolf, There is NO physical evidence

Then I have no reason to take your claim seriously. If you feel like the scientific community cannot produce that evidence, produce it yourself.

If they told you that you were a Buffalo, I'm sure that you would accept that too, since Humans have eyes and ears, just like Buffaloes. Right?

Wrong. For two primary reasons.

First of all, the common ancestor between humans and buffalo lived during the late Cretaceous period (i.e., dinosaurs were still around).

Second of all, comparing apes to buffalo is highly inaccurate. Apes are scientifically called hominoidae, and refers to a family. Buffalo, properly African Buffalo, is a specific species. Saying I am a buffalo is like saying I am a chimpanzee, or that a gorilla is an orangutang. That's wrong. Buffalo are part of the bovidae family, which includes animals such as deer and cattle.

These things are not determined just by clear physical features (internal or external), but also by genetic divergence. How distantly we are related to all other forms of life can be determined by the ratio of similarities to differences.

Wrong, but by the time Evols listen, it will be too late for them. Then they will spend Eternity kicking themselves in the hind end for being so willingly ignorant of the Truth.

When I say that you're wrong, I explain why. Here, you're not explaining why, just reiterating nonsense that we have no reason to take seriously.

Besides, if a Supreme God is that petty, good riddance. I don't want to spend an eternity with such a prick.

It's the same today, since the sons of God (prehistoric people) married Noah's descendants and produced today's Humans, who have the blood of the sons of God (and the DNA of the common ancestor of Apes) in their DNA, even though there have been NO sons of God (prehistoric people) for thousands of years, now.

If we could interbreed like that, then we're the same species. Just as being able to interbreed with Neanderthals is an indication that they were also human.

Besides, there's plenty of tribes who still live without planting crops or building cities.

and has NOTHING to do with natural selection since Apes don't Magically change into Humans, no matter how many Bumpkins Truly believe that they do.

I've never met someone who understood how the sciences work, and believed such a silly thing.

Scientifically, there is NOTHING to measure, since intelligence is invisible.

Just because something is invisible doesn't mean it can't be measured. We measure invisible things all the time, by the effect they have on visible things. All light except for visible light is invisible, for example, because our eyes cannot detect them. (Infrared light, ultraviolet light, x-ray light, etc.) But we can still study their effects, and even translate them to visible light so we can "see" them.

In this case, intelligence can be measured by several mental abilities. The ability to recognize and manipulate patterns, the ability to retain and recall knowledge accurately, the ability to learn from mistakes and not repeat them, the ability to recognize and be aware of one's self distinct from the rest of the world, the ability to plan for potential problems in the future that may not be present here, etc.

Applying the adverb "scientifically" to your claim is not an accurate use of the term at all, since it's not based on any scientific exploration of your own, or research into scientific findings.

Historically, the following shows that Humans first appeared on this Planet some 10k years ago. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE

That map does not indicate that. Nor is that history. It's just a map.

Those settlements near Mt. Ararat are not defined, and so from this map alone we cannot double-check how old those settlements might be. However, I have already demonstrated that the archaeological consensus is that Jericho, which is quite some distance away from the mountain, is the oldest still-inhabited city in the world. Hardly compelling.

Furthermore, if you actually read the text below the map, the oldest named archaeological sites, collectively named as Kermanshah Culture and identified here as squares(dating back to ~7500 BCE or ~9500 BP [before present]), are far closer to the Persian Gulf than they are to Mt. Ararat. The small-circle sites are listed only as "other settlements before 4500 BCE", which gives a range of about 4000 years between the date listed and your claimed date. For reference, 4000 years is about what separates us from the final builds of Stonehenge.

Therefore, there's no reason to take this map as any evidence whatsoever of your claims.

Scripturally, it is shown that Humans were made BILLIONS of years before ANY other living creature, including Apes. Gen 2:4-7

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

There's nothing in these verses that indicates any of what you're saying, and in fact contradicts the scientific consensus on how the history of life happened. Rain was falling on the Earth for millions and millions of years before any life showed up, and then it was only single-celled and marine.

Therefore, Scientifically, Historically, and Scripturally,

If those are your only three arguments, they've now been refuted. They're not even remotely enough, in any case, to draw any sort of conclusion.

Humans evolving from Apes is IMPOSSIBLE except in the minds of Godless men who are terribly afraid of a Righteous Judgment, which will surely separate the good from the evil, and show that the motivation for such a Belief is because they love evil more than good.

Which doesn't even begin to make sense. This is more straw man arguing; what a person believes is no indication whatsoever on whether or not they are good or bad. Actions determine such things.

I'm not terribly afraid of any "righteous judgment" (whatever that even means), for the record. I've already accepted that, as a polytheist, my actions anger and please different Gods, and those whom I've angered can do as they will to me.

 

[Thief]

And what if they can wake up and walk around, playing tricks on the living? Or what if they go to Candy Land?

Making judgments based entirely on "what ifs" is not a very good way to do it.

You "have no doubt", but you've not given me any reason to have anything BUT doubt.

Assumption is a useful tool...properly applied.

I can't get out of my body.....I assume you can't either.
I see the potential to be stuck in this body after the last breath.
I assume as much for you.

What if our minds and hearts are NOT physically driven?

You might have noticed.....
If any of your body is severed....that part turns to dust.
It has no life of it's own.

How about you?

 

[Riverwolf]

Assumption is a useful tool...properly applied.

No. Properly checked.

I can't get out of my body.....I assume you can't either.
I see the potential to be stuck in this body after the last breath.
I assume as much for you.

What if our minds and hearts are NOT physically driven?

You might have noticed.....
If any of your body is severed....that part turns to dust.
It has no life of it's own.

How about you?

Guess what? Those parts of my body do have their own life. But that life is dependent on the rest of my body's processes, and so they die when separated from that.

When we dream, our brains are working. In comas, our brains are barely functioning. When dead, our brains display no functioning whatsoever. That awareness you speak of is dependent on the brain. If there is any sort of awareness independent of the brain, we can't conceive of what it might be like.

When you ask for "me", exactly what are you talking about? What is your conception of someone's identity?

 

[outhouse]

exactly what are you talking about?

Good luck with that. He cannot define what is only in his imagination, so he never even tries.

I see fanaticism

 

[RichardParker]

I see the potential to be stuck in this body after the last breath.

How?
Our bodies won't even last that long after death.
But not only that, given that "I" am a product of my brain, "I" will stop existing once the brain stops working. And even if it worked beyond the moment when we can actually measure it (so, live on, even after being declared dead), the brain would STILL eventually, after not too long, have decayed.

Sure, there is a conceivable possibility that "we" actually aren't product of our brains, despide every scientific evidence that points to the contrary, but in the same way I could just assume that a volcano will errupt tomorow at the exact place where my house stands and kill me... So, should I move now?
Of course not! Because we usually don't care for the things that are "possible", ESPECIALLY when this possibility actually would require all our knowledge to be wrong (We don't have any volcano-risk in my town, and we do know that all the things that makes "us" us can be linked to brain-functions).

So, as far as I can tell, believing in an after-life is just wishfull thinking.

 

[Runewolf1973]

To me, what we call life is just a complex form of interaction, therefore "afterlife" would amount to no more than a different form of interaction, perhaps less complex. The thing to remember is that on a fundamental level, interaction never stops, it never comes to an end, even when we reach that point we call death. So what is consciousness or life?...complex forms or interaction. What happens when we die?... continual interaction in some form or other. As matter changes from one form to the next, so do we, so does our life and so does our consciousness. That is continual interaction and that is why I believe in reincarnation.

The notion of a creator God to me however makes no sense.



---

 

[RichardParker]

To me, what we call life is just a complex form of interaction, therefore "afterlife" would amount to no more than a different form of interaction, perhaps less complex. The thing to remember is that on a fundamental level, interaction never stops, it never comes to an end, even when we reach that point we call death. So what is consciousness or life?...complex forms or interaction. What happens when we die?... continual interaction in some form or other. As matter changes from one form to the next, so do we, so does our life and so does our consciousness. That is continual interaction and that is why I believe in reincarnation.

The notion of a creator God to me however makes no sense.

---

I didn't understand how you got to "reeincarnation".
Sure, the parts that make up our body will be "reused" by the universe for other things.
But our consciousness as far as we can tell is the emergent property of the individual parts of our brain working together. Once seperated, these parts don't form your consciousness anymore, therefore it stops existing.

It's like saying a house, once build, must always exist and can't get lost anymore, because the individual atoms will always exist.
But that makes no sense, because the house is more than just the individual parts, it's the specific configuation of the parts, and once they don't have this configuration anymore, then we don't have a house anymore... even though on a simply quantifiable level has been lost.

 

[idav]

Even more perplexing than humans evolving from an ape template is humans evolving from mere atoms.

 

[RichardParker]

Even more perplexing than humans evolving from an ape template is humans evolving from mere atoms.

True. But that's mainly because our human mind isn't really good at grasping long periods of time, or accumulated changes. We really suck at imagining small steps leading up to big things, and yet we can prove that these things happen constantly.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I didn't understand how you got to "reeincarnation".
Sure, the parts that make up our body will be "reused" by the universe for other things.
But our consciousness as far as we can tell is the emergent property of the individual parts of our brain working together. Once seperated, these parts don't form your consciousness anymore, therefore it stops existing.

It's like saying a house, once build, must always exist and can't get lost anymore, because the individual atoms will always exist.
But that makes no sense, because the house is more than just the individual parts, it's the specific configuation of the parts, and once they don't have this configuration anymore, then we don't have a house anymore... even though on a simply quantifiable level has been lost.

What we call consciousness is a complex form of interaction. That interaction does not cease at death, it merely changes as our form changes. We reach a different level of consciousness ie: a different level of interaction. To me, reincarnation is nothing more than a type of change from one interactive state to the next. We are all just matter changing form.


---

 

[outhouse]

That interaction does not cease at death, it merely changes as our form changes.

---

Unsubstantiated


Try backing that statement before claiming it is real. As it stands that is 100% imagination.

A soul factually does not exist at this point in time scientifically.


It does exist in imagination and mythology though.