Hunting? Immoral?

[Dezzie]

I'm not.

I'm saying that population control, when done properly, can serve a valid purpose and have real ecological benefit, and that hunting can be part of this. That goal is achieved as soon as the animal is dead; whether the hunter gets benefit from the animal by eating it is completely secondary.


Often, it isn't a matter of choosing between survival and death. It's a choice between shooting the animal now or letting it starve slowly over the winter, or a choice between reducing the numbers of an overpopulated predator species now or having its prey population wiped out completely later.

Isn't our species becoming more over populated?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Isn't our species becoming more over populated?

Our population is increasing, but what matters is whether we're within our environment's carrying capacity.

What do you think the carrying capacity of the Earth is for humans?

 

[Dezzie]

Our population is increasing, but what matters is whether we're within our environment's carrying capacity.

What do you think the carrying capacity of the Earth is for humans?

I understand your point and no... I do not know what the carrying capacity is for humans on the Earth... BUT I do know that animals become endangered everyday and more people are being born each day than they are dying. Some of the World isn't exactly inhabitable either. I mean... it is but it's not like you can grow crops in some places. Plus... we fight with one another everyday. I personally don't see anyone being nice to eachother... nor do I see a Country allowing their "enemies" to kick their doors in for their land.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I understand your point and no... I do not know what the carrying capacity is for humans on the Earth...

Right... so you can't say whether the population of humans is "too high".

BUT I do know that animals become endangered everyday and more people are being born each day than they are dying.

But is this a problem that directly results from human population, or is it one that can be mitigated by better managing our impacts on the world?

Some of the World isn't exactly inhabitable either. I mean... it is but it's not like you can grow crops in some places. Plus... we fight with one another everyday. I personally don't see anyone being nice to eachother... nor do I see a Country allowing their "enemies" to kick their doors in for their land.

But human beings have reached a point now that no animal has really ever reached before: we don't need to live in the vicinity of our food supply.

 

[sniper762]

dallas, i am pro hunting and pro meat eating, but your implimation that bowhunting may be better than gun hunting doesnt hol water.

a bow kills by hemorage or bleeding out. (a slow painfull d eath)

a well placed high powered rifle shot kills by shock, mostly instantanious and painless, therefore more humane than the bow

 

[Dezzie]

Right... so you can't say whether the population of humans is "too high".

Do you have the numbers though? I actually am curious to know them.

But is this a problem that directly results from human population, or is it one that can be mitigated by better managing our impacts on the world?

Hmm... A little bit of both I would think... more of the second choice of course. I am sure the population size still has it's impacts. Whether they are severe or not.

But human beings have reached a point now that no animal has really ever reached before: we don't need to live in the vicinity of our food supply.

And yes... that is true. Isn't it fantastic?

 

[dallas1125]

dallas, i am pro hunting and pro meat eating, but your implimation that bowhunting may be better than gun hunting doesnt hol water.

a bow kills by hemorage or bleeding out. (a slow painfull d eath)

a well placed high powered rifle shot kills by shock, mostly instantanious and painless, therefore more humane than the bow

I never made any implication at all like that. I only implied that I use a bow or gun when I go hunting.

 

[dallas1125]

I just want to ask a simple question to the OP: Do you absolutely need to hunt for animals or can you cope by eating fruit, nuts and veg? If the latter is the case, then why the need to hunt an animal and cause another living being pain and distress?

I wouldnt be able to live off fruit nuts and veg. Sorry, I cant do that.

 

[McBell]

da well placed high powered rifle shot kills by shock, mostly instantanious and painless, therefore more humane than the bow

Key part is "well paced".

I know not how much hunting with a firearm you have actually done, but I am guessing it is little to none.

I base this on the fact that very seldom will you get said text book shot.
And even less time will your textbook shot turn out like you want or expect.

 

[dallas1125]

Key part is "well paced".

I know not how much hunting with a firearm you have actually done, but I am guessing it is little to none.

I base this on the fact that very seldom will you get said text book shot.
And even less time will your textbook shot turn out like you want or expect.

Although wouldnt the smaller mass of the bullet hurt less?

In reality though, there is no way to actually know which one hurts more unless we get a volunteer...

There are so many factors that go into it that it is probably impossible to test. What organs you hit, the mass and speed of the arrowhead vs. the bullet, the force, any nerve damage...

 

[McBell]

Although wouldnt the smaller mass of the bullet hurt less?

In reality though, there is no way to actually know which one hurts more unless we get a volunteer...

There are so many factors that go into it that it is probably impossible to test. What organs you hit, the mass and speed of the arrowhead vs. the bullet, the force, any nerve damage...

Not to mention the type of arrow head, the caliber of the bullet, the grain of the round, the pull of the bow...

I would also assume that, like humans, animals have different thresh holds for pain...

 

[dallas1125]

Not to mention the type of arrow head, the caliber of the bullet, the grain of the round, the pull of the bow...

I would also assume that, like humans, animals have different thresh holds for pain...

Yeah those would probably factor in too. There are just way too many variables to say anything about it.

 

[Valjean]

Do you have the numbers though? I actually am curious to know them.

The estimates are all over the board, depending largely on how the population lives and what sort of planet it creates to live on.
True, if we lived like chickens or pigs in factory farms we could, conceivably, sustain our present population for a long time, though the long term effects of the destroyed terrestrial ecology this would entail are hard to calculate.

I would prefer to live on a green world with a thriving, natural ecosystem, personally. That's not what we're headed for, though. Our population has tripled in a single lifetime, we're using/extracting resources faster than Earth can replace them and every ecological system is currently in decline.

Hmm... A little bit of both I would think... more of the second choice of course. I am sure the population size still has it's impacts. Whether they are severe or not.

 

[sniper762]

Originally Posted by sniper762
dallas, i am pro hunting and pro meat eating, but your implimation that bowhunting may be better than gun hunting doesnt hol water.

a bow kills by hemorage or bleeding out. (a slow painfull d eath)

a well placed high powered rifle shot kills by shock, mostly instantanious and painless, therefore more humane than the bow
I never made any implication at all like that. I only implied that I use a bow or gun when I go hunting.
__________________
sorry dallas, i misinterpreted what you said

 

[dallas1125]

Originally Posted by sniper762
dallas, i am pro hunting and pro meat eating, but your implimation that bowhunting may be better than gun hunting doesnt hol water.

a bow kills by hemorage or bleeding out. (a slow painfull d eath)

a well placed high powered rifle shot kills by shock, mostly instantanious and painless, therefore more humane than the bow
I never made any implication at all like that. I only implied that I use a bow or gun when I go hunting.
__________________
sorry dallas, i misinterpreted what you said

No problem at all.

 

[Surya Deva]

I wouldnt be able to live off fruit nuts and veg. Sorry, I cant do that.

It's not that you can't do that, it is that you choose not to do that.

Millions of people in the world are vegetarian and are able to live healthy and full lives. So of course it is possible to live on only fruits, nuts, veg(and dairy if you are not vegan)

What I don't understand is why would you in knowledge that you can live a healhy life with only vegetarian food, still insist on having animals killed for food? Why subject other
living beings to pain and distress, when you don't have to?

 

[dallas1125]

It's not that you can't do that, it is that you choose not to do that.

Millions of people in the world are vegetarian and are able to live healthy and full lives. So of course it is possible to live on only fruits, nuts, veg(and dairy if you are not vegan)

What I don't understand is why would you in knowledge that you can live a healhy life with only vegetarian food, still insist on having animals killed for food? Why subject other
living beings to pain and distress, when you don't have to?

I said I wouldnt not coudnt!

I could but I dont want too. There are positive aspects to hunting. When it comes to meat, it should only be eaten scarcely. So in my idea, I eat lots veggies and stuff like that but I eat a meal with meat 3 times a week.

 

[McBell]

What I don't understand is why would you in knowledge that you can live a healhy life with only vegetarian food, still insist on having animals killed for food?

I like eating meat.

Why subject other
living beings to pain and distress, when you don't have to?

I like eating meat.

 

[dallas1125]

I like eating meat.


I like eating meat.

Agreed :clap

 

[dust1n]

I see what you mean with the bow and the gun. Although this is arguable. We developed a large intelligence by evolution then used it to create a way for us to get the job done. So by using a gun or bow, your arguably using your naturally evolved abilities.

Then wouldn't anything including guns, traps, feeders, enclosed fields, etc. also be fair?