Thief
Rogue Theologian
so the sin of ALL mankind will not be atoned?
what about people who do good things believing heaven is a reward?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
I Am A Good Person, Therefore, I'm Going To Heaven!
- Thread starter katiemygirl
- Start date
what about people who do good things believing heaven is a reward?
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
Faith, and many evidences.
There is evidence that some of what it written is as true as God is true. Why do you assume it is all exactly as it should be, according to Jehovah?
Then that's a difference between you and me. I would have a serious issue with a bad law being applied correctly to me... even if there's no higher law to tell the judge that the law is bad.
The laws of my country acknowledge that principles of fundamental justice exist independent of the law. That must make your head just spin.
What do you mean by "faith"? In any sense that I know the term, faith is a conclusion that flows from a justification, not a justification for a conclusion.
And what evidences? What are the top few most compelling ones?
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Jesus didn't write the Bible. Authors, who were not Jesus, quoted him. We cannot be certain what Jesus did or did not actually say. That is why I feel that further exploration is necessary into biblical claims.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Just because something is written doesn't mean it is true.
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
How do you know about Jesus, but for the Bible?
I think that without the Bible people know about a Creator God and a god of understanding. They want goodness and miracles without ever hearing of any. They want to be treated fairly even though they might never have been treated fairly and never heard of Jesus. Sometimes their conscience tells them they do wrong if they break rules that they do not even know about. They want to be loved and to love.
Jesus teaches that we should take all that to the next level. It is my opinion that the next level is not for everyone.
Am I right in taking this to imply that you believe that the Bible is the only justification for believing in Jesus?
What does Jesus have to do with fairness?
In fact, isn't this whole thread about rejecting the idea that Jesus is fair?
I think he was fair to the people he is said to have lived with.
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
Could you please answer the question? How do you know about Jesus, but not for the Bible?
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
The Holy Spirit is the author of the Bible. He guided the men who wrote it. Those men quoted Jesus. Anything of real value that you or anyone knows about Jesus comes from the Bible.
Not true. Romans 1:19 Romans 2:14 Romans 7:21.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
The many other gospels not included in it. But, we can certainly get a lot of information from the Bible as well. Never claimed otherwise. When it comes to his exact words, we can certainly use the Bible as a source, but, because it was mostly written by other authors, we can't be certain of its validity.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
That is your belief, and that is fine for you. But it is not a certainty.
Not so much to fig trees, though.
You didn't ask me until just now.
Jesus the character in a book: I learned about him mainly from the Bible and things that Christians have told me (which I assume they mainly got from the Bible, either directly or indirectly).
Edit: ... or they got it from their own imaginations. IMO, Jesus is the sort of character that people glom their own ideas onto.
Jesus the actual person: to the extent that I think he was real, about 50-50 between the Bible and Josephus (not the Testimonium Flavianum - the other reference: the presumably genuine remark about "James, brother of Jesus, the so-called Christ"). The Bible has a lot more detail than one line from Josephus, but I don't exactly consider the Bible a trustworthy source.
The person of Jesus is not so very decisive as what he stands for which is; The Father, love, faith, hope, righteousness, wisdom, self-control, integrity, gratitude and humility. Those exist without the person of Jesus, but he gives a person the strength to carry on till the end in those attributes.
So, it is my opinion, that by Jesus being those virtues, a person CAN know him without knowing the Jesus of the Bible. But by knowing the Jesus of the Bible power is added to a doer of God's will alongside every human virtue imo.
What I mean is that power is lacking until you know the Jesus of the Bible.
It seems to me though, that the people who think a person must know the Jesus of the Bible put knowing ahead of every virtue. Is knowing even a virtue? I think not.
The Bible seems to say it isn't. 1 Corinthians 8:1
So, it is my opinion, that by Jesus being those virtues, a person CAN know him without knowing the Jesus of the Bible. But by knowing the Jesus of the Bible power is added to a doer of God's will alongside every human virtue imo.
What I mean is that power is lacking until you know the Jesus of the Bible.
It seems to me though, that the people who think a person must know the Jesus of the Bible put knowing ahead of every virtue. Is knowing even a virtue? I think not.
The Bible seems to say it isn't. 1 Corinthians 8:1
Last edited: