I Am A Good Person, Therefore, I'm Going To Heaven!

[sandy whitelinger]

I do not believe killing another animal does any good.
by Moses.....
you bring an animal of proper fitness
hands are laid on you...and then to the animal
as if the sin is tangible though invisible

an appointed person then takes the animal into the wilderness and stakes to the ground.....to die
your sin dies with the animal

I don't believe that can happen

and I don't believe the Carpenter dies to take away our sins

His salvation would be found in the parables
If His word is within you....you will be known to Him
He will see Himself in you

His crucifixion was the culmination of bad authority
and the weakness of the crowd to defend what was right

Whether you believe a scapegoat to be a good thing or not is not relevant to the satisfaction of law.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have never doubted whether the Bible is God's Word. I believe it is 100%.

Why? What convinces you?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

You and I have very different ideas of justice. Where I come from, punishing the innocent is never just.

Edit: you say that it's "allowed for under the Law"; I've heard Jewish members here say that human sacrifice is expressly forbidden under Jewish law. Do you have a different opinion, and if so, what's your basis for it?

Fist of all our personal ideas of what justice is are irrelevant; justice in these matters only apply to the correct application of law. Looking at types, ie. Christ as a type scapegoat always seems to be a tricky bailiwick. To avoid that it seems that the substitutionary payment is allowed for under the law of faith. As such I choose to be judged under that law rather than the Law of Moses.

 

[Thief]

Whether you believe a scapegoat to be a good thing or not is not relevant to the satisfaction of law.

the law of Man?.....or the law of God?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

the law of Man?.....or the law of God?

Mosaic Law and the law of faith. Perhaps also the law of man should man choose to invoke some form of law like that.

 

[Thief]

Mosaic Law and the law of faith. Perhaps also the law of man should man choose to invoke some form of law like that.

and the Pharisees did ask Him.....
Have you come to take away the law?

Nay.....I have come to fulfil it

I suspect....the Carpenter did not believe in scapegoats
and He is likely disappointed that so many still do

after all.....
your deeds are returned to you for each occasion of a meeting in heaven
so I believe

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Fist of all our personal ideas of what justice is are irrelevant; justice in these matters only apply to the correct application of law.

Our judgement of justice is irrelevant to determining what is just? That's a new one.

What do you think determines whether something is just? How do you decide whether an application of the law is "correct"?

Does your viewpoint allow for the possibility of an unjust law?

Looking at types, ie. Christ as a type scapegoat always seems to be a tricky bailiwick. To avoid that it seems that the substitutionary payment is allowed for under the law of faith. As such I choose to be judged under that law rather than the Law of Moses.

This makes no sense if Christ's sacrifice is required under the "Old Law". If Christ had already moved on to the "law of faith" (however you define this), then why just do away with the sacrifice supposedly demanded by the Old Law?

Edit: if the old law forbade human sacrifice, and the new law does away with the need for sacrifice altogether, exactly where do you get the need to sacrifice Jesus from?

 

[savagewind]

I cannot agree.....it is written....
many do good things, even in the Name of the Lord
and He knows them not.

He said people, if they are LOVING, will be with God.

I strongly believe that any person who tries to live a good life (charitable, non-judgmental, loving, strives to help those in need, etc.) Will be with God after death, regardless of what they do or do not believe.

All other things, charitable, forgiving, helping, are the products of love. So, it is not being charitable that will get a person saved to Jehovah, it is the true love (agape love) that can save a person. Humanitarianism without love is good for Earth, but not for Heaven imho.
Did Jesus say, "God is love"? Love goes where God goes. I am sure.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Our judgement of justice is irrelevant to determining what is just? That's a new one.

What do you think determines whether something is just? How do you decide whether an application of the law is "correct"?

Does your viewpoint allow for the possibility of an unjust law?

Golly, have another cup of coffee and pay attention. I've answered this twice. Justice is the correct application of law. And yes there can be unjust law but there needs to be separate law in order to declare another one as unjust.

This makes no sense if Christ's sacrifice is required under the "Old Law". If Christ had already moved on to the "law of faith" (however you define this), then why just do away with the sacrifice supposedly demanded by the Old Law?

This just makes no sense to you. All laws are still in effect. You choose which one to be judged under.

 

[savagewind]

Am I wrong hearing some people saying that being right is what saves them?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

and the Pharisees did ask Him.....
Have you come to take away the law?

Nay.....I have come to fulfil it

I suspect....the Carpenter did not believe in scapegoats
and He is likely disappointed that so many still do

after all.....
your deeds are returned to you for each occasion of a meeting in heaven
so I believe

in which case forgiveness and grace are irrelevant. Good luck to you. Be good.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This just makes no sense to you. All laws are still in effect. You choose which one to be judged under.

And which law demands that Jesus be sacrificed? Was is the one that forbids human sacrifice or the one that does away with sacrifice altogether?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Am I wrong hearing some people saying that being right is what saves them?

You could be right and they are wrong.

 

[Thief]

in which case forgiveness and grace are irrelevant. Good luck to you. Be good.

that was some leap you just made.....

grace is really all that we can hope for

 

[sandy whitelinger]

And which law demands that Jesus be sacrificed? Was is the one that forbids human sacrifice or the one that does away with sacrifice altogether?

The law of faith allows for the sacrifice of Christ to be the atonement for the sin of all mankind. Justice is served.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

that was some leap you just made.....

grace is really all that we can hope for

So then being good enough is not enough. And yes I can follow in great leaps.

 

[Thief]

The law of faith allows for the sacrifice of Christ to be the atonement for the sin of all mankind. Justice is served.

from Judas to Hitler?.....and a few million others?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Golly, have another cup of coffee and pay attention. I've answered this twice.

You've stated claims that, AFAICT, you pulled out of your butt. You're yet to explain them or justifu them.

Justice is the correct application of law. And yes there can be unjust law but there needs to be separate law in order to declare another one as unjust.

I seriously hope that you're not a judge or a legislator.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

from Judas to Hitler?.....and a few million others?

Neither Judas or Hitler seem to have believed in Jesus.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

You've stated claims that, AFAICT, you pulled out of your butt. You're yet to explain them or justifu them.


I seriously hope that you're not a judge or a legislator.

From Merriam-Webster.com: Justice: " the process or result of using laws to fairly judge and punish crimes and criminals." I am a sign painter and a gentleman farmer as well as king and emperor of the Mighty Kingdom of Sandy yet should I go before a judge I damn well hope that they would apply the law correctly. I would hate to stand before my ultimate judge and have them condemn me on a whim.