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I Am A Good Person, Therefore, I'm Going To Heaven!

Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
leibowde84 said:
This is merely a claim, but I welcome historical evidence or reasoning to support this claim. And, I doubt that God would be cruel enough to expect us to merely take the word of the men who wrote the Bible merely because they say so. Something that important should be questioned, studied, investigated, and truly contemplated. Obviously, every scripture of any faith claims to be the word of God, and not all of them can actually be so.

Also, there are various contradictions inherent in the Gospels (just as an example). Most deal with nothing more than mere changes in numbering, names, places, etc. But, if the Holy Spirit was responsible for all of the gospels, letters, acts, etc., it would be expected that they wouldn't exist whatsoever. That is one of many reasons why I find blind faith in the Bible to be unreasonable.


I don't accept or reject the Bible in its entirety. I do a ton of research, spiritual and mental contemplation along with discussing the topic with theological experts and reading their impressions and thoughts. I find great enjoyment in exploring what is written about the historicity, plausibility, and historical context of the various writings included in scripture. From spending time doing this, I have found it foolish to accept or reject the Bible in its entirety. According to the majority of experts in the field of anthropology and ancient history, many of the books included in it, including the gospels, were written by unknown authors and merely named for certain apostles/disciples of Jesus. Further, many experts disagree as to interpreting what is written in this ancient collection of books. So, I doubt I will ever be able to come to a complete and accurate understanding of the texts, but I do enjoy the journey.

So, long story short, I ask questions, look into the history, and try to come to a more comprehensive understanding of what is claimed in the Bible.


I certainly don't believe in my own wisdom in the least. I do, however, try to use the wisdom of experts; men and women who have spent their professional careers studying the writings and other ancient texts and evidence in an attempt to get to the actual truth behind it. I am in a constant effort to put work and effort into getting to the authenticity of anything claimed in the Bible. If God wants to punish me for attempting to get a better understanding of his will, that is up to God. But, I doubt God is that unreasonable.

I went to a jesuit high school, and they always encouraged my skepticism, urging me to explore the history, plausibility and credibility of the biblical authors rather than blindly accepting every claim they make. I tend to agree with that.


If you think that I "pick and choose" after reading this reply, then you haven't respectfully tried to understand my explanation. In no way do I arbitrarily or subjectively "pick and choose". I haven't "picked" or "chosen" anything quite yet. There are certain things I lean toward being accurate, but still am searching for certainty. And, there are things that seem outright incorrect and unreasonable when it comes to Jesus' teachings. But, still, I try to explore them as well.

Does that make sense?
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no it did not.....

you claim to be on a spiritual journey......
you haven't chosen anything yet...
and you seek the evidence in history

you will not find what you claim to seek
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
2ndpillar said:
Dear kate,
Actually everyone goes to the grave/pit.
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nay....I believe....
in the hour of the last breath, heaven comes to see what stands from the dust

for as long as you breathe, you and your flesh have a fixed relationship
if you fail to stand up...you follow the flesh into the box and into the ground

eternal darkness is a physical reality.....not a philosophical idea

I will make the attempt....to renounce the flesh
and stand before heaven

it is written.....pray ye stand well...
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
savagewind said:
I think Jesus changed what the end will be.
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many believe the 'end' is predictable

Man was formed in turn form spirit
Man will run his course

I believe the spirits formed of this life will continue.....God willing
those not able .....will perish
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Thief said:
no it did not.....

you claim to be on a spiritual journey......
you haven't chosen anything yet...
and you seek the evidence in history

you will not find what you claim to seek
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I'm on a spiritual journey, so of course I haven't "chosen anything" yet. It would be absurd if I had, if by "chosing" you mean, taking on a conclusion as a certainty.
 
K

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
"leibowde84, post: 4818136, member: 56049"]I think we are both referring to questioning whether it is in actuality God's word. If we knew it was God's word, then questioning it wouldn't make much sense.
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I don't think you are reading my posts.

I have never doubted whether the Bible is God's Word. I believe it is 100%.

But I don't always understand things perfectly when I read them.

Never do I doubt that our Bible is the very words God spoke. Ever!!! I have never questioned or doubted it. Ever!!!
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
katiemygirl said:
No, you made a specific declaration. You said, "The wages of sin is death, not eternal punishment."

It is true that the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23 says such. But you took it upon yourself to add to the verse, "not eternal punisment." The verse says no such thing. Furthermore, the Bible teaches there will be eternal punishment for those who do not repent.
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Um, your leading the op astray. Shame on you.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
You said that just forgiveness alone wouldn't be enough to satisfy justice. Assuming that this was supposed to relate to Jesus in some way, I'm trying to figure out how the painful execution of the only truly innocent man in existence - i.e. a total miscarriage of justice - would make the situation any more just, let alone just enough for a holy god.
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The substitutionary role of a scapegoat is allowed for under Law and therefore satisfies the needs of justice (which is the correct application of law).
 
K

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
sandy whitelinger said:
The substitutionary role of a scapegoat is allowed for under Law and therefore satisfies the needs of justice (which is the correct application of law).
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Do you believe Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood so that those who believe He is the Son of God receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life?
 
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