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I Am A Good Person, Therefore, I'm Going To Heaven!
- Thread starter katiemygirl
- Start date
Thief
Rogue Theologian
the art work doesn't do the event any justiceSo much for turning the other cheek!
The Perfect One flips his lid!
to clear a temple of believers.....people who think they belong there
brute force would be in play
no doubt.....someone tried to stop Him
apparently ...none could
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Wow, never heard any of that before. Is there a verse on that? Would like to see it. I read that Jesus and the apostles preached the resurrection.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
I'm not sure you know what Mediocrity means. What do you mean by choice of mediocrity?
It doesn't mean being between two choices.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Again, just because something is written doesn't mean it's true. It's also written that God will be the judge, not imperfect men like you.
I think belief is linked to trust. Jesus saying you are neither hot nor cold is not about belief imho. It is about what a person does.
http://biblehub.com/greek/2041.htm "work"
Maybe hot people demonstrate their faith in God by teaching and cold people demonstrate their faith by their compassion upon others. We know that some teachers are hated, but people who are kindly minding their own business are not hated so much.
Pointing out where people have got it wrong is HOT. Showing friendly agreement is COOL.
Backing off and doing neither is lukewarm.
http://biblehub.com/greek/2041.htm "work"
Maybe hot people demonstrate their faith in God by teaching and cold people demonstrate their faith by their compassion upon others. We know that some teachers are hated, but people who are kindly minding their own business are not hated so much.
Pointing out where people have got it wrong is HOT. Showing friendly agreement is COOL.
Backing off and doing neither is lukewarm.
Domenic
Active Member
AT last...somebody got it right..."NO HUMAN HAS EVER GONE TO HEAVEN. " Jesus will rule over the EARTH for 1,000 years. He will not rule from Heaven, he will rule on a Paradise earth. All who have died are in the grave until Jesus returns. Have you not read the scripture, "The meek will inherit the earth, and reside on it forever?"
Religions teach Heaven and earth are the same. If that is true, prove it with the bible.
Resurrection does Not mean there is No future life, however in Scripture the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection......
How can a person 'end up' in biblical hell when the Bible's hell is temporary ?
The sea will give up its dead, death and hell will give up the dead in them, then death and hell are hurled into ' second death ' - Revelation 20:13-14
The definition of the symbolic ' lake of fire ' is: ' second death ' - Revelation 20:14 B
Sinner Satan ends up in ' second death ' according to Revelation 21:8
Jesus will destroy Satan according to Hebrews 2:14 B
So, ' second death ' is a fitting term (Not for hell) but for: destruction. Destruction as the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
The executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the Earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:11; Revelation 19:14-16
So, according to Scripture, what matters is if we end up 'destroyed'. Destroyed forever as in being annihilated - Psalms 92:7
No human went to heaven 'until' after Jesus died - John 3:13 - but that does Not mean No one will ever go to heaven. See previous post # 461
Those of Luke 22:28-30 will be in heaven, as those of Revelation 20:6 will. They rule from heaven over Earth - Revelation 5:9-10
Isn't John 14:19 clear the world would see Jesus No more ?_______
Jesus was resurrected back in his pre-human spirit body - Hebrews 9:24-26; Hebrews 10:12 - so his coming appearance is invisible. The world will see him with their mind's eye.
- Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Rubbish! Who cares if we are put to sleep forever?
When did Adam come to life ? Adam was Not a 4 month old, but a grown man when God breathed the ' breath of life ' into life-less Adam - Genesis 2:7
Adam did Not possess a soul, Adam did Not have a soul, rather Adam was a soul. ALL of Adam was a living breathing soul or person - Genesis 2:7
What happened to Adam when he died? According to Genesis 3:19 Adam ' returned ' to the dust of the ground.
Can a person ' return ' to a place he never was before ? ______So, Adam simply went back returning to where he started -> the dust of the Earth.
What kind of life did Jesus teach about as 'life after death' but resurrection life - John 11:12-14
' Afterlife' teaches being more alive at death then before death.
Resurrection teaches that we need someone who can bring up back to life again because the dead know nothing - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Nothing but sleep - Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4
Some have a first or earlier resurrection to heaven - Revelation 20:6
The majority will have a happy-and-healthy future physical resurrection starting when Day One of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins. Acts of the Apostles 24:15
The sinning soul dies according to Ezekiel 18:4,20, so the soul is Not immortal, and the soul can be destroyed - Acts of the Apostles 3:23
What is the asking price tag that sin pays but: death - Romans 6:23. There is nothing in Scripture about any post-mortem penalty past death. No double jeopardy.
Apparently those of 1 Corinthians 15:12-14 care. If No resurrection then one's worship is in vain, worthless.
What would be the point of any religion if there was only sleep forever? In that case: eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we sleep (in death) forever.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
How true!! When you read a book like Acts, part of the Gospel WAS the resurrection! Paul and Peter both preached that. When we die, we are "asleep in Christ". Not a real sleep like we do at night. But we are dead. We know that we will awake when are Lord returns, "like a sleep". So an afterlife wouldnt even make any sense....
1 Cor 15
But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
Also, it is good to keep in mind that we who are still alive on Earth at the soon coming ' time of separation ' - Matthew 25:31-33,37, can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth, right into the start of Day One when Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins. Jesus will rid our Earth of enemy death - 1 Corinthians 15:26
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
I didn't say that there was no ressurection..
It's you who 'cherry pick' and ignore that Jesus, peace be with him, taught us that there was indeed a hell..
..nevermind if it's eternal or for 1000 years .. it's not a desirable destination
McBell
Unbound
You made the claim.Can you not use a search engine ?
I can offer you tomato ketchup
It is on YOU to support said claim.
Now if you prefer to have said unsupported claim tossed into the garbage and you marked as a bold empty claimer, by all means, do not provide any sources for your claim.
McBell
Unbound
wait, so that there is a hell is something that was not changed in the Bible?
I have a difficult time keeping track of what Muslims say has and has not been changed.
Especially since they cannot come to a census on the matter.
roger1440
I do stuff
Are you implying that atheists have some sort of creed?
Domenic
Active Member
Jesus said when he returns, "ALL eyes will see him> " that means all people, believers, and non-believers. Jesus is ruled from heaven. There is nothing in the scriptures that says any man would see heaven.
roger1440
I do stuff
It would appear God has a very crude sense of humor. The only way to heaven is through Jesus. Some people are fortunate to be born and breed within a Christian culture. The opportunity to choose a religion other that Christianity is slim to none. What about those people who are not as fortunate? Some areas of the world are more religiously diverse then others.
I live within one of those religiously diverse areas. The Empire State Building I can see from my window as I’m writing this. It is about 8 miles east of my home. The New York/ New Jersey metropolitan area is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet, the Tokyo metropolitan area ranks 1st. The area I live in is the most religiously, ethnically and racially diverse area on the planet ever known to mankind. It would be impossible to investigate each and every religion within an hour’s drive of where I live. If I were to spend only a week researching each religion in my area I would probably need over 100 life times to complete it. To avoid eternal torment in hell I would have to choose Christianity. But not only Christianity, but Christianity taught just the right way. There are nearly 20 million people that live in my area. The diversity between the various churches in my area would probably be in the hundreds. I would have to put my trust in the priest, minister or pastor that he or she is teaching about Jesus the right way.
“30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.
31 “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.” (Acts 8:30-31)
31 “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.” (Acts 8:30-31)
I would also need to trust the people who compiled the Bible. The Bible didn’t fall out of the sky one day. It took many councils and debates to come up with the New Testament. I have no idea who these people were or what criteria they used. I have no means at my disposal to investigate whether or not they made the right decision. It would be necessary to believe in Jesus, yet there is no eye witness accounts of his existence outside of the Bible. I would have to believe in Hell yet there are no eyewitness accounts from anyone who has been to Hell and back. Thirteen books of the New Testament have been attributed to the Apostle Paul as being the author. Yet Paul never met Jesus. Paul never quotes Jesus. Paul never mentions anything about Jesus’s life. Paul never mentions what Jesus taught. Paul knows absolutely nothing about Jesus’s life except he was born of a woman. Gee, I could have figured that one out on my own.
It all seems like a very cruel practical joke.
America's Most Religiously Diverse Cities
http://www.citylab.com/politics/2012/12/americas-most-religiously-diverse-cities/4227/
I know close to nothing about Islam, but what I do know is that the following poem written by a Muslim saint and mystic transcends religious boundaries. It was written over 1000 years ago.
If I Adore You
If I adore You out of fear of Hell,
Burn me in Hell!
If I adore you out of desire for Paradise,
Lock me out of Paradise.
But if I adore you for Yourself alone,
Do not deny to me Your eternal beauty.
Rabia al-Basri
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabia_Basri
A very famous Rabbi wrote the following nearly a 1000 years ago.
Halacha 1
A person should not say: "I will fulfill the mitzvot of the Torah and occupy myself in its wisdom in order to receive all the blessings which are contained within it or in order to merit the life of the world to come."
"[Similarly,] I will separate myself from all the sins which the Torah warned against so that I will be saved from all the curses contained in the Torah or so that [my soul] will not be cut off from the life of the world to come."
It is not fitting to serve God in this manner. A person whose service is motivated by these factors is considered one who serves out of fear. He is not on the level of the prophets or of the wise.
The only ones who serve, God in this manner are common people, women, and minors. They are trained to serve God out of fear until their knowledge increases and they serve out of love.
Halacha 2
One who serves [God] out of love occupies himself in the Torah and the mitzvot and walks in the paths of wisdom for no ulterior motive: not because of fear that evil will occur, nor in order to acquire benefit. Rather, he does what is true because it is true, and ultimately, good will come because of it. http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/911914/jewish/Teshuvah-Chapter-Ten.htm
To use my own words, the love of God is its own reward.
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