I am Israel

[Quagmire]

One of the perks of being a supreme overlord right?

If it weren't for the free parking.....

 

[England my lionheart]

So Israel occupying Palestine is okay?

That was decided a long time ago,think about it,7 wars and two infitadas all defeats BTW,Plane Hijackings suicide bombings etc you would think the Penny would drop and they would realise violence isn't going to work .

 

[Sahar]

Interesting video, Sahar. Although I'm no authority on the situation, the facts in the video seem accurate enough, but I seriously wonder what purpose the video serves? It seems one sided, thus, it seems to vilify the Israelis in much the same way that the Palestinians have been vilified in the American press. That only creates even more animosity and hatred than already exists. But are more animosity and hatred actually helpful to resolving the situation?

What do you mean Sunstone by "one sided"? Do you mean that there is anything can justify expelling the Palestinians from their land and occupying it and giving them to a different racial and religious group Do you mean there can be justification for the massacre of Dir Yasin? Do you think that we should ignore the facts using the excuse "creating hatred"? Don't you think facts like this are important in shaping anyone's views towards the entire issue, what is just and what is unjust? Or justice and morality are not important in a conflict like this and what is important is what those who have the power can achieve on the ground? Isn't this the American attitude and policy towards the matter (and any matter)?

 

[Sahar]

Its amusing how big of a deal is made over Palestine/ Israel when the mass murdering and oppression of the Bosnian war is ignored. I would have thought Islam would have had more to say about the genocide there? Do you feel as strongly about the plight of Chechnya which is 94% muslim?

Great ideas for new threads.

 

[kai]

What do you mean Sunstone by "one sided"? Do you mean that there is anything can justify expelling the Palestinians from their land and occupying it and giving them to a different racial and religious group Do you mean there can be justification for the massacre of Dir Yasin? Do you think that we should ignore the facts using the excuse "creating hatred"? Don't you think facts like this are important in shaping anyone's views towards the entire issue, what is just and what is unjust? Or justice and morality are not important in a conflict like this and what is important is what those who have the power can achieve on the ground? Isn't this the American attitude and policy towards the matter (and any matter)?

The problem with moral arguments is you have to keep the high ground.

 

[Rakhel]

Israel is the oppressor, whereas Palestine is the oppressed. To compare the two and to say Palestine is equally guilty of violence is ridiculous. The violence of the oppressor can never be compared with the violence of the oppressed.

Whatever happened to "non-violence is the solution to violent attackers?" Or does that apply only to those that don't support the PA?

 

[darkendless]

Great ideas for new threads.

By all means, great break from these anti-Israel threads, they're somewhat repetitive but always amusing.

 

[Chisti]

Whatever happened to "non-violence is the solution to violent attackers?" Or does that apply only to those that don't support the PA?

For myself, I am nonviolent under all circumstances. But I have no right to advise oppressed people to be nonviolent when their homes are being destroyed.

 

[Badran]

Whatever happened to "non-violence is the solution to violent attackers?" Or does that apply only to those that don't support the PA?

In his first reply to the "I loathe violence" thread, he said:

I too hate violence but also believe that one has to distinguish the violence of the oppressor from the violence of the oppressed. The former is typical of governments and armies (in the name of country, self-defense, war on terror and all that nonsense), whereas the latter is born of sheer desperation, desperation caused by material conditions which many poor and less fortunate find themselves in.

 

[Chisti]

The problem with moral arguments is you have to keep the high ground.

Fine non-answer.

 

[Chisti]

That was decided a long time ago,think about it,7 wars and two infitadas all defeats BTW,Plane Hijackings suicide bombings etc you would think the Penny would drop and they would realise violence isn't going to work .

Don't evade the question. Is Israel occupying Palestine justified in your eyes?

 

[Rakhel]

and that view changed over the course of the thread. "if you are being attacked, the best thing to do is to not respond and the attacker will walk away."

 

[Badran]

The problem with moral arguments is you have to keep the high ground.

I agree. In the case that its kept, i expect more serious responses when addressing this issue, which unfortunately rarely occurs.

By this i mean that when that high ground is kept (as in not criticize Israel and at the same time sympathize or support Hamas, but oppose both, that is what you mean right?), i should get responses that flat out gives a serious judgment on the issue, not things like "Israel is already there" or "both sides are bad" or "hamas was the one who provoked Israel" etc.... yet i still get them.

Comparing Hamas to Israeli government i can understand, however comparing both sides in general i can not.

This by the way is not addressed to you, i'm just using your statement to voice this out.

 

[kai]

I agree. In the case that its kept, i expect more serious responses when addressing this issue, which unfortunately rarely occurs.

By this i mean that when that high ground is kept (as in not criticize Israel and at the same time sympathize or support Hamas, but oppose both, that is what you mean right?), i should get responses that flat out gives a serious judgment on the issue, not things like "Israel is already there" or "both sides are bad" or "hamas was the one who provoked Israel" etc.... yet i still get them.

Comparing Hamas to Israeli government i can understand, however comparing both sides in general i can not.

This by the way is not addressed to you, i'm just using your statement to voice this out.

what i mean is most of these threads boil down to taking sides for one reason or another. What i dislike is the way threads turn into a tit for tat posting of violent actions and speeches etc , everyone trying to out do each other to prove a political point.

what people should be doing is searching for a solution instead of fanning the fire.

 

[Badran]

what i mean is most of these threads boil down to taking sides for one reason or another. What i dislike is the way threads turn into a tit for tat posting of violent actions and speeches etc , everyone trying to out do each other to prove a political point.

what people should be doing is searching for a solution instead of fanning the fire.

No i understand that, and agree. Debates/discussions of this topic mostly do not result in anything positive. I was actually saying that i also agree with you that you can't use the moral arguments unless you're going to keep them, and finally i was just basically complaining that when kept i still most of the time don't get honest or serious responses.

 

[Chisti]

and that view changed over the course of the thread. "if you are being attacked, the best thing to do is to not respond and the attacker will walk away."

You seem to be confused.

 

[England my lionheart]

Don't evade the question. Is Israel occupying Palestine justified in your eyes?

I don't think the settlements are but as for the rest Israel is occupying Israel not Palestine,thats the reality,70 years of of violence has not and will not change that.

 

[Chisti]

I don't think the settlements are but as for the rest Israel is occupying Israel not Palestine,thats the reality,70 years of of violence has not and will not change that.

In other words, you support occupation and genocide. Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[kai]

In other words, you support occupation and genocide. Thanks for clarifying that.

what are the areas that you consider "occupied" ?and have you a link to support the Genocide " accusation? just to get an insight into whether its worth a discussion or not.

 

[England my lionheart]

In other words, you support occupation and genocide. Thanks for clarifying that.

Duh,thats not even a nice try,this is the kind of mentality that will ensure the conflict will last a very long time.