I am pro-abortion, not just pro-choice

[Kirran]

That would be for a court to decide. I'm no law professor.

But you do get to decide on murder? Just not manslaughter? Dude, come on, have some consistency.

 

[Reggie Miller]

Congratulations.
That makes you, like me, a hard core Pro-Lifer. We should stand together in opposition to Capital Punishment, war, environmental degradation, and the ever increasingly lethal weapons.
You do, of course, support the USA's top anti-abortion organization Planned Parenthood, correct? Some people don't understand what PP really does.

Stronger Together!
Tom

Not financially. I have very limited funds.

I do support the Catholic Church and the Knights of Columbus, though, both are strong anti-abortion/anti-death penalty institutions - as you probably already know.

 

[Reggie Miller]

But you do get to decide on murder? Just not manslaughter? Dude, come on, have some consistency.

I believe it is murder if the abortion is done purely because the mother does not want to have the baby.

It may or may not be in other circumstances. I would leave each individual case up to the courts to decide.

 

[YmirGF]

I am pro-choice and pro-abortion, for the most part. I just get cold feet over the idea of later term abortions (beyond the 3rd Trimester). If the mother's life is in peril, for sure, abort... ... if not, not so sure...

 

[columbus]

Not financially. I have very limited funds.

I do support the Catholic Church and the Knights of Columbus, though, both are strong anti-abortion/anti-death penalty institutions - as you probably already know.

People do what they can do.
I get annoyed by Catholics who will quote Humanae Vita, but blow off Laudato Si. Or make a big deal out of papal pronouncements, except the ones against capital punishment or declaring the invasion of Iraq a "crime against humanity ".
Tom

 

[Kirran]

I believe it is murder if the abortion is done purely because the mother does not want to have the baby.

It may or may not be in other circumstances. I would leave each individual case up to the courts to decide.

But I just don't get how you can not think there's something wrong with a woman allowing her health to be bad if it may cause a miscarriage.

 

[McBell]

I think we can safely consider the conversation between you and I on this subject closed. Have a good day, sir.

I agree.
You are unable to discuss the subject of abortion rationally.

You also have a nice day.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So it's okay to kill humans?

You're equivocating. You didn't ask "when does a fetus become A human?" You asked "when does a fetus become human?"

The adjective "human" can be applied to lots of things that aren't people: human DNA, human nature, human growth hormone, the human skeleton, etc.

 

[McBell]

I am pro-choice and pro-abortion, for the most part. I just get cold feet over the idea of later term abortions (beyond the 3rd Trimester). If the mother's life is in peril, for sure, abort... ... if not, not so sure...

I hear you.
Me personally, I disagree with using abortion as birth control.
However, i am not so arrogant as to try to make my personal preferences law.

 

[YmirGF]

I hear you.
Me personally, I disagree with using abortion as birth control.
However, i am not so arrogant as to try to make my personal preferences law.

You and me, both, Mes.

 

[McBell]

You're equivocating. You didn't ask "when does a fetus become A human?" You asked "when does a fetus become human?"

The adjective "human" can be applied to lots of things that aren't people: human DNA, human nature, human growth hormone, the human skeleton, etc.

This is the problem I see the most in the abortion "debate".
That and claiming the sperm and egg are not alive before conception.

 

[Revoltingest]

I believe everything is ultimately subjectively right or wrong.

I see some things as more amenable to such judgement than others.
Murder of people is something easy for people to agree upon.
But abortion.....it involves the question of when life begins, which
rights begin at what age, & balancing the rights of the mother
against the rights/value of the fetus. Complicated it is.
And thus, an uneasy compromise will be had.

 

[Revoltingest]

I hear you.
Me personally, I disagree with using abortion as birth control.
However, i am not so arrogant as to try to make my personal preferences law.

Most women (& the men involved with them) would prefer better birth control means.
So there's a built in disincentive to treat abortion as such.
Think of it as a market solution to minimizing abortions.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

So if it comes out prematurely, say, after 2 months, it's human at that time?

... well when you say it like that it sounds stupid.

I'm sorry, I got my arguments mixed up. I thought we were arguing over when a foetus becomes a person. Now @columbus's response to my acorn post makes a lot more sense. It's human the whole time.

 

[Deeje]

I could have totally trolled you here by saying "God is a really nice guy who knows better than all of us and we should totally trust him" just so your second sentence makes him sound like a *******. Really though, I believe the Abrahamic god is a cosmic tyrant with a narcissism complex that could blot out the stars.

With an attitude like that, you will earn whatever it is you expect your future to be. God will not force you to live a life that you do not want...fair enough? Its not a good idea to bite the hand that gave you life.

 

[Deeje]

@Deeje it may be worth making you aware that when you speak in a way that totally assumes your view of God is correct and that it has an effect on other people, it tends to make those who don't believe what you're saying switch off.

The way I speak is with conviction as to what I believe. I am aware that many people will not take any notice of what I say or view it in a positive way. I am sorry that my words make you want to turn off.....Jesus had the same problem. Like him, I have conviction and I convey my beliefs in a positive way.....I also do not believe that all roads lead to Rome. Jesus taught that there is just one cramped and narrow road to life.....no one is going to find it unless the exit sign is well posted.

People are free to ignore the exit sign and to keep driving however.

More equivocal language i.e. 'in my understanding', 'I believe', 'based on my study of scriptures and teachings that makes sense to me' and whatever might get people to listen to you more readily. Also, it would fit in better with RF's ethos!

Yes I understand that.....my Aussie directness makes it difficult for me to tip-toe around other people's sensibilities.....I am sorry about that. We call a spade a spade here and its hard to phrase things sometimes without that directness creeping in.

 

[Kirran]

The way I speak is with conviction as to what I believe. I am aware that many people will not take any notice of what I say or view it in a positive way. I am sorry that my words make you want to turn off.....Jesus had the same problem. Like him, I have conviction and I convey my beliefs in a positive way.....I also do not believe that all roads lead to Rome. Jesus taught that there is just one cramped and narrow road to life.....no one is going to find it unless the exit sign is well posted.

People are free to ignore the exit sign and to keep driving however.

Yes I understand that.....my Aussie directness makes it difficult for me to tip-toe around other people's sensibilities.....I am sorry about that. We call a spade a spade here and its hard to phrase things sometimes without that directness creeping in.

Hey, it doesn't put me off Just sometimes I do bring our conversations to an end because we're not getting anywhere!

 

[Deeje]

Hey, it doesn't put me off Just sometimes I do bring our conversations to an end because we're not getting anywhere!

Fair enough.

 

[Deeje]

You only call "playing god" the interference in life you think is bad.
Interfering with life in what you consider a good way does not illicit the "playing god" accusation.

Classic text book double standard.

Ummm not sure I understand your point....?

Is taking life the same as saving it in your estimations? Is there not playing God in a good way and also in a bad way. How can that be a double standard?

 

[Deeje]

Trump can fix it, make America great again.

Not sure it was all that great to begin with ....it just had the ability to make people think it was. Good marketing works. LOL