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I am pro-abortion, not just pro-choice
- Thread starter Saint Frankenstein
- Start date
I don't get what the debate is in this thread. If I start a thread titled, "I am Pro-Life" and conclude in OP that it makes the most sense, how is that different from the 10 thousand other debate threads we have on the topic?
I see abortion as pro-murder, the choice to murder. It's okay if you disagree with this, but don't anyone be naive to think one can't come up with rationale for why the choice to kill another person, regardless of that being's alleged innocence, is possible. It surely is possible. This topic makes it abundantly clear that it is possible.
I see abortion as pro-murder, the choice to murder. It's okay if you disagree with this, but don't anyone be naive to think one can't come up with rationale for why the choice to kill another person, regardless of that being's alleged innocence, is possible. It surely is possible. This topic makes it abundantly clear that it is possible.
Do you think it's wrong to warn people of an impending disaster? Would you call an emergency service worker out for "crossing the line" if someone took umbridge at being disturbed over a house to house warning regarding a coming tsunami?
What kind of a Christian would I be if I sat on my porch reading my Bible if I knew that every car passing my house was going to disappear into a ravine as the result of a recent storm? Shouldn't I be down on the road waving my arms and shouting a warning to these people? Even a humanitarian would do that. I can't make them believe me but at least I can try to warn them.
McBell
Unbound
Ummm not sure I understand your point....?
Is taking life the same as saving it in your estimations? Is there not playing God in a good way and also in a bad way. How can that be a double standard?
I apologize.
I am unable to dumb it down any further.
Do you think it's wrong to warn people of an impending disaster? Would you call an emergency service worker out for "crossing the line" if someone took umbridge at being disturbed over a house to house warning regarding a coming tsunami?
What kind of a Christian would I be if I sat on my porch reading my Bible if I knew that every car passing my house was going to disappear into a ravine as the result of a recent storm? Shouldn't I be down on the road waving my arms and shouting a warning to these people? Even a humanitarian would do that. I can't make them believe me but at least I can try to warn them.
Perhaps stating it outright, complete with scatterings of condescension, is not the best way to convince people about that incoming disaster. Of course convincing them of it amounts to conversion, which isn't what RF is about.
It's like a game of tennis sometimes....you simply return serve.
My bad? You want me to tip-toe around the subject? Sorry I don't tip-toe very well.....maybe telling it like it is is a bit too much for some people....but you know, they don't have to read a word I write.
Telling people what the Bible says is not converting them...it is telling them the truth as I understand it. If we are right, the ones who did not listen will reap what they have sown...that is what Jesus taught.....am I wrong to tell people what Jesus taught on a religious discussion site? Why else am I here if not to debate the subject?
I am not pro-abortion and I don't believe Jesus was either.....unjustified abortion is murder and all murderers will answer to the Creator. That is my position, but it doesn't mean that those who do the wrong thing can't be forgiven. My God is very forgiving if one is repentant.
It's like a game of tennis sometimes....you simply return serve.
You want me to tip-toe around the subject? Sorry I don't tip-toe very well.....maybe telling it like it is is a bit too much for some people....but you know, they don't have to read a word I write.
Telling people what the Bible says is not converting them...it is telling them the truth as I understand it. If we are right, the ones who did not listen will reap what they have sown...that is what Jesus taught.....am I wrong to tell people what Jesus taught on a religious discussion site? Why else am I here if not to debate the subject?
I am not pro-abortion and I don't believe Jesus was either.....unjustified abortion is murder and all murderers will answer to the Creator. That is my position, but it doesn't mean that those who do the wrong thing can't be forgiven. My God is very forgiving if one is repentant.
Look, it's things like 'All murderers will answer to the Creator'. Rather than qualifying it with 'I believe', 'In my understanding', 'as I understand the Bible's teachings' or whatever. It's in the RF Rules.
primož
New Member
You introduce yourself as Catholic still?
Depending on my mood, yes.
primož
New Member
Where is your faith? You can't be >I feel like caring< and say >I'm Catholic<. Do you believe or do you only say you believe when you feel like you will get a pat on the back?
If the tsunami was sent by a god you're convinced is perfectly good, then yes.
You would be a Christian who has faith in God.
My spiritual journey and views are complicated and what I choose to identify as has nothing to do with people's approval. I don't talk about religion much with other people in person.
meghanwaterlillies
Well-Known Member
China.... free will of LIFE!!!!
I don't understand people really going to extremes to prove their point makes it twice as bad, you lost me at happy. ( you don't need it)
Yes medical reasons stand in the middle of those extremes and some others.
I don't understand people really going to extremes to prove their point makes it twice as bad, you lost me at happy. ( you don't need it)
Yes medical reasons stand in the middle of those extremes and some others.
primož
New Member
What you choose to identify as has everything to do with you and what you believe. If you say you belong to a family and you are in conflict with it's teaching, it's not wrong and unjust if someone tries to correct you. Catholic Church and pro-abortion doesn't get along, at all. Read this article: Pope urges Bishops to protect lives of children - Vatican Radio
I know very well the teachings of the hierarchy on the subject. Welcome to the board.
By the way, you can believe or practice Catholic spirituality without being in strict obedience to the ultra-conservatives in the hierarchy. There's independent Catholics, too.
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What makes you think God 'sends' tsunamis or the earthquakes that generate them? Many natural disasters are the result on man's interference with the earth itself. Oil, for example was put in the earth for a purpose...and it wasn't to fuel polluting pieces of machinery to make greedy men rich. Mother Earth is groaning under the weight of man's selfish mismanagement of the earth perfectly balanced eco-systems and the Creator will soon hold them to an accounting of those whom he assigned as caretakers.
My 'perfectly good God' stepped out of a world that has , for the most part, rejected him. He will not interfere with our free will, but nor will he step in to protect anyone from the natural consequence of Adam's disobedience.....sin and death. Life lessons are the best teachers. No future generation in the "new earth" will want to emulate Adam's conduct, and if they do, they will not be permitted to stay around to tell the story.
To God, this situation is temporary whilst he sorts out the issues of rebellion without taking away the gift of free will.
In the end all will return to the conditions humans had in Eden and those who lost their lives will get them back. All the damage will be undone and the only ones left on earth will be those who have remained faithful on this cramped and narrow road.
The ones sailing along on the freeway oblivious to their Creator's requirements will find that it is a dead end. (Matthew 7:13-14)
No I would be a Christian who is failing to obey her God. He has assigned his servants to make known his intentions and he has provided a guidebook to demonstrate what he requires of his human creation. But he will not force a single person to do anything against their will...nor will he interfere with our choices. Do you want him to?
primož
New Member
We can't have our own little 'opinions' about the teachings of the Catholic Church, that's silly. Do you believe or you don't believe?
Are you saying that human being cause tsunamis? If so, can you step through the thinking you used to come to that conclusion?
And even if human beings did somehow create tsunamis, they would still ultimately be God's responsibility as long as God could foresee that they'd happen. Human beings would just be God's means of causing them.
How would God wilfully denying his help absolve him of responsibility for his actions?
Frankly, "free will" as an excuse for suffering makes no sense at all.
Even if we choose between competing desires, we don't choose which desires we'll have.
Free will also doesn't mean being able to act on our desires. There are plenty of things a person might choose to do but are physically impossible.
So which are you saying will happen.
- ultimately, God will toss away everyone's free will?
- God's end goal is compatible with human free will?
Either position is incompatible with your argument.
In the Gospels, Jesus calls those who worry about the necessities of life and preparing for the future "ye of little faith."
What would motivate you to intervene?
- if God's aware of the situation and sufficient to meet the need, your intervention is unnecessary.
- if your intervention is necessary, this implies that either God is unaware of the situation or isn't sufficient to meet the need on his own.
Helping others is either hubristic (i.e. believing that the all-powerful god of the universe needs your help to get stuff done) or atheistic (i.e. acting as if God isn't there to help).
If you trusted that God will ensure that his will will be done, you wouldn't need to try to make God's will be done.
Your question assumes quite a bit that I don't accept (and that violates your own premises).