I am sceptical of the Skeptics. Is it wrong?

[LuisDantas]

dude, you deny the quran because it threads the atheists or disbelieves with the hell, but you have to know Buddhism also believe in the hell.

It has teachings about hell. About how to create and undo it, as a matter of fact.

Don't be misled by the use of roughly similar words. The actual teachings and messages are worlds away from each other.

Buddhism, quite simply, is not very concerned about heaven and hell at all, and less still about deities. Those are all accessory concepts, which sometimes end up abused and need some course correction. Some of our schools don't even really use them.

As a rule, religious teachings that center on concepts of deity, heaven and hell tend to be somewhat difficult to keep their way. Those are simply not good concepts to ground a religious doctrine on.

 

[use_your_brain]

It has teachings about hell. About how to create and undo it, as a matter of fact.

Don't be misled by the use of roughly similar words. The actual teachings and messages are worlds away from each other.

As a rule, religious teachings that center on concepts of deity, heaven and hell tend to be somewhat difficult to keep their way. Those are simply not good concepts to ground a religious doctrine on.

then the Buddhism is compatible with hell concept in the Quran. In this case you have to leave Buddhism also, try Judaism it doesn't believe in the hell, little bit. Or the Christianity, the modern goers do no longer believe in hell.

 

[J. F. Gallant]

it is untrue because it tells you, being atheist makes one goes to hell? bad news indeed hurts, however it is the warning actually.

But "hell" does not exist. If you, the Qur'an, or anyone else claims that it does exist, then the burden of proof is upon you all to provide conclusive evidence to prove it exists.

The burden of proof is always upon the person who makes a positive claim of the existence of anything, and is never upon anyone who denies the existence of anything when no evidence to support the existence has been provided.

If, for example, you and a friend walked into a totally empty and very small room, and your friend claimed that a very large elephant- an elephant far too large to fit in the room- was in the room, should you believe him? Should he not be obligated to prove to you that an elephant was in the room?

And do you think that you would be required to provide evidence that an elephant is not in the room? No, you are not required to provide evidence of the non existence of an elephant in the room, but it can be proven that the elephant does not exist.

In logic and reasoning, in regards to positive claims, there are two things that are to be considered:

1. Absence of Evidence.
2. Evidence of Absence.

In regards to proving the non existence of the elephant in the room, it can be demonstrated that it is perfectly reasonable to accept the evidence of the absence of evidence as being positive proof to support the claim of non existence.

More info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence

Therefore, since the claim of the existence of Hell has never been proven, then we atheists are being completely honest and justified when we claim that Hell does not exist, for the evidence of absence is positive proof to support our positive claim of non existence.

Since we can provide proof to support the non existence of Hell, can you therefore counter our evidence by providing positive proof that Hell does indeed exist?

You see, we know you cannot. Pointing back to your Qur'an is not evidence, but rather it is circular logic, and is false. I could do the same with Peter Pan, and claim he exists, and do you think that I can prove he exists by simply pointing to the book called "Peter Pan" and saying, "The book says he exists?"

Of course not, nor can you do that with the Qur'an.

 

[use_your_brain]

But "hell" does not exist. If you, the Qur'an, or anyone else claims that it does exist, then the burden of proof is upon you all to provide conclusive evidence to prove it exists.

The burden of proof is always upon the person who makes a positive claim of the existence of anything, and is never upon anyone who denies the existence of anything when no evidence to support the existence has been provided.

If, for example, you and a friend walked into a totally empty and very small room, and your friend claimed that a very large elephant- an elephant far too large- was in the room, should you believe him? Should he not be obligated to prove to you that an elephant was in the room?

And do you think that you would be required to provide evidence that an elephant is not in the room? No, you are not required to provide evidence of the non existence of an elephant in the room, but it can be proven that the elephant does not exist.

In logic and reasoning, in regards to positive claims, there are two things that are to be considered:

1. Absence of Evidence.
2. Evidence of Absence.

In regards to proving the non existence of the elephant in the room, it can be demonstrated that it is perfectly reasonable to accept the evidence of the absence of evidence as being positive proof to support the claim of non existence.

More info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence

Therefore, since the claim of the existence of Hell has never been proven, then we atheists are being completely honest and justified when we claim that Hell does not exist, for the evidence of absence is positive proof to support our positive claim of non existence.

Since we can provide proof to support the non existence of Hell, can you therefore counter our evidence by providing positive proof that Hell does indeed exist?

You see, we know you cannot. Pointing back to your Qur'an is not evidence, but rather it is circular logic, and is false. I could do the same with Peter Pan, and claim he exists, and do you think that I can prove he exists by simply pointing to the book called "Peter Pan" and saying, "The book says he exists?"

Of course not, nor can you do that with the Qur'an.

Hell does exist.

 

[LuisDantas]

then the Buddhism is compatible with hell concept in the Quran.

No, it quite clearly is not, and by a large margin even.

It just happens to have some (not much) use for a roughly similar concept.

Come to think of it, I am not even sure the term has been translated well or accurately. I do know that "God" usually isn't,so that is something worth pursuing some later time.

The hell of the Qur'an is an internally self-contradictory concept, a place of punishment for disbelievers and sinners despite existing under the auspices of a supremely powerful and supremely good God.

The hell of Buddhist teachings is more of a purgatory by Abrahamic understandings. And it is a place of great opportunity for skilled teachers to make a difference for the benefit of all beings. It is a place which religious people of sincere heart should hope to attain in order to spread fraternity where it is most needed. It is a place to be pitied, not feared.

And above all, it is not a place that people should go out of their way to believe in. That is simply not important or even desirable for correct religious practice.

In this case you have to leave Buddhism also, try Judaism it doesn't believe in the hell, little bit. Or the Christianity, the modern goers do no longer believe in hell.

I do not third-party my religious decisions, nor do I welcome uninvited and clearly misguided guesses about what they should be.

Like it or not, I do take responsibility for my religious life and I do not consider you any kind of authority on what it should be. That is just how it is and how it will remain being.

For that matter, I do not trust your judgment of what Buddhism is either. Or Judaism. Or even of the validity of the Qur'an.

Rough, but that is the truth, and I would not offend you by lying about it.

I do however hope that you realize that it is not your place to decide what I should believe. I would hate to have to call you on it again. Because I would make it rather unpleasant.

 

[J. F. Gallant]

Hell does exist.

Can you provide any evidence to support your positive claim that hell does exist?

Please be completely honest with yourself.

 

[use_your_brain]

No, it quite clearly is not, and by a large margin even.

It just happens to have some (not much) use for a roughly similar concept.

Come to think of it, I am not even sure the term has been translated well or accurately. I do know that "God" usually isn't,so that is something worth pursuing some later time.

The hell of the Qur'an is an internally self-contradictory concept, a place of punishment for disbelievers and sinners despite existing under the auspices of a supremely powerful and supremely good God.

The hell of Buddhist teachings is more of a purgatory by Abrahamic understandings. And it is a place of great opportunity for skilled teachers to make a difference for the benefit of all beings. It is a place which religious people of sincere heart should hope to attain in order to spread fraternity where it is most needed. It is a place to be pitied, not feared.

And above all, it is not a place that people should go out of their way to believe in. That is simply not important or even desirable for correct religious practice.




I do not third-party my religious decisions, nor do I welcome uninvited and clearly misguided guesses about what they should be.

Like it or not, I do take responsibility for my religious life and I do not consider you any kind of authority on what it should be. That is just how it is and how it will remain being.

For that matter, I do not trust your judgment of what Buddhism is either. Or Judaism. Or even of the validity of the Qur'an.

Rough, but that is the truth, and I would not offend you by lying about it.

I do however hope that you realize that it is not your place to decide what I should believe. I would hate to have to call you on it again. Because I would make it rather unpleasant.

hell is hell no matter you strive to make it smooth. Hell is the torment place where the people, mankind are tortured brutally.
And it is believed in Buddhism. Which kind of people would be tortured in the Buddhism hell? it is your task to observe.

 

[use_your_brain]

Can you provide any evidence to support your positive claim that hell does exist?

Please be completely honest with yourself.

Quran says so.

 

[LuisDantas]

hell is hell no matter you strive to make it smooth. Hell is the torment place where the people, mankind are tortured brutally.
And it is believed in Buddhism. Which kind of people would be tortured in the Buddhism hell? it is your task to observe.

Dude, you don't know what you are talking about. Why should I listen to you when you speak foolishness?

 

[J. F. Gallant]

Quran says so.

And that is circular logic; false logic.

 

[use_your_brain]

Dude, you don't know what you are talking about. Why should I listen to you when you speak foolishness?

take a look NARAKA in wikipedia. you don't have to believe me.

 

[LuisDantas]

take a look NARAKA in wikipedia. you don't have to believe me.

I know of Naraka.

I have created and dissolved it quite a few times. It is quite the experience.

Learning to navigate it and to love the people who can't find their way out of it is a very important part of religious life. I wish I could share it with you.

 

[use_your_brain]

And that is circular logic; false logic.

it is a true circular logic.

 

[J. F. Gallant]

it is a true circular logic.

Therefore, Peter Pan exists because the book `Peter Pan`says he exists, right?

 

[Corthos]

This thread has become a graveyard.. It's where reason comes to die.

 

[use_your_brain]

Therefore, Peter Pan exists because the book `Peter Pan`says he exists, right?

Does peter pan really exist? serious. I thought he was a fictional character.

 

[Aquitaine]

can you show me that part?

Sure.

http://www.klps.pl/pliki/gospel_fsm_eng.pdf

Page 176 of 178 under "About the Author" we find:
"he currently supports himself as a full-time prophet. Bobby got his start as a prophet in 2005, shortly after the Flying Spaghetti Monster appeared before him and disclosed that He was the true creator of the universe."

Disprove 100% otherwise it is true.

 

[Aquitaine]

Quran says so.

If the Quran is all you're going off, then I think it's pretty safe to say that we don't need to worry about Hell.
Seriously, it's just a tool to coerce people into conforming to islamic "authority".

 

[J. F. Gallant]

Does peter pan really exist? serious. I thought he was a fictional character.

Does Allah really exist? Seriously, I thought he was a fictional character. Does Hell really exist? I thought it was a fictional place.

There is nothing written in the Qur'an that proves the existence of Allah and Hell any more than a book written about Peter Pan proves the existence of Peter Pan.

Neither book proves anything, and never will.

 

[use_your_brain]

Sure.

http://www.klps.pl/pliki/gospel_fsm_eng.pdf

Page 176 of 178 under "About the Author" we find:
"he currently supports himself as a full-time prophet. Bobby got his start as a prophet in 2005, shortly after the Flying Spaghetti Monster appeared before him and disclosed that He was the true creator of the universe."

Disprove 100% otherwise it is true.

what is the proof that he is a prophet?