Paul is God of the Gentiles?
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I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father but by me. (John 10:9, 14:6)
- Thread starter Kelvin.Max
- Start date
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
John 20:28 should NOT be translated "God." Before and after this verse they are saying Son of God.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Should be more like -
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my Master/Judge.
Joh 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
Joh 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peacebeunto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrustitinto my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my Master/Judge.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have NOT seen, and YET have believed.
That is a JUDGMENT against him by his Judge/Master. He recognizes this with his wording.
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Hebrews 1 should not be translated as Jesus is God either.
Heb 1:8 But to the Son, the Throne/power of thou, O God, for ever and ever: the Sceptre of Rightness is the Sceptre of thy reign.
We are told repeatedly that he is the son by inheritance.
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
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Sand Dancer
Currently catless
John was the last written, so less accurate. However, more beautifully written, as well as more mystical.
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
haha.... no.... haha
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
They are both ''ho theos'' and to not translate them that way would be dishonest.
Abraham becomes the source of blessing, for in him "all families of the earth shall call themselves blessed." (Gen 12:3) The mission of the Chosen People is to make a gift of their God to every other people. Israel's mission, to witness to the nations.
seeking4truth
Active Member
This quote speaks of Abraham. I have no argument with this.
But Abraham had many children from whom were born many families. Ishmael, his first born son was the ancestor of the Arab nations and the ancestor of Muhammad who was called a mercy for all mankind and the prophet to whom was revealed the Holy Quran a book for all mankind. Neither of which Jesus claimed.
seeking4truth
Active Member
Paul went to the Gentiles. We are told that he is the God of the Gentiles also
Paul( or maybe Marcion writing in the name of Paul) claimed this. Did Jesus?
Paul( or maybe Marcion writing in the name of Paul) claimed this. Did Jesus?
I believe that Marcion was an early heretic. According to him the NT would consist of 'the apostle and the gospel" referring to Paul and Luke, and the rejection of OT Scripture.
Paul was called the 'apostle to the gentiles, never referred to as 'God'.
seeking4truth
Active Member
Marcion has many phases to his career. He was the son of a bishop, he transcribed and edited many of the Christian writings and may have chosen his own interpretation when choosing what to include. His purpose being to reduce the Jewish context and make the teachings of Christ more acceptable to a polytheistic Roman audience.
" In his opinion the 12 apostles misunderstood the teaching of Christ, (The Development of the Canon of the New Testament - Marcion
How could Marcion claim to know what Jesus meant more than the chosen 12 companions did, those who spent their day to day lives with him and accompanied him on his teaching tours and were sent by him to spread the news of his claims?? Yet the Catholic church in Rome claimed their right to apostolic succession through his work thereby dividing the church into eastern and western branches..
" In his opinion the 12 apostles misunderstood the teaching of Christ, (The Development of the Canon of the New Testament - Marcion
How could Marcion claim to know what Jesus meant more than the chosen 12 companions did, those who spent their day to day lives with him and accompanied him on his teaching tours and were sent by him to spread the news of his claims?? Yet the Catholic church in Rome claimed their right to apostolic succession through his work thereby dividing the church into eastern and western branches..
Way off here. It was the Catholic Church that declared him to be a heretic, the same Church that claims the Jews remain
God's chosen people, the covenant with Abraham is irrevocable. The schism between the East and West resulted over doctrinal differences, over claims of the Filioque, and papal jurisdiction. Both churches share the same Scripture and the same sacraments.
Yeshe Dondrub
Kagyupa OBT-Thubetan
The original scrolls contradicts Christ being god. It does state he was in form with him, beside him numerous times. He has spoken to the father as son in biblical stories. He has asked why he was forsaken, and has asked for blessing.
While I do not believe in the stories as factual truth, I can relate to reflection aspects.
We can see from Hebrew texts, some New testament translations are incorrect. The same has happened with later and Greco.
However those aspects are fairly clear. Otherwise the Christo Christians follow would take on the persona of someone who has multiple personality disorders,, rather then divinity or and enlightened mind.
"3 [a]And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,"
He has stated he was with god, not of a prize to be in form with him from the beginning, does not mean one in the same. But will reflection, goals may be. Like a student and guru.
Jesus was God see
Matthew Chapter 16 :
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew Chapter 16 :
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
I am a gentile and a reborn Christian. My God is the Creator of this world and I believe Jesus is the son o God who came to earth through virgin Mary , to reconcile us sinners with God , thus showing God's love towards us sinners.
Would it surprise anyone that belief in the divine sonship of Jesus is not dependent on the virgin birth, but on the Abba-Son
dialogue and the 'I AM' of John's Gospel. The doctrine of His divinity would not be affected if He were born of a normal human marriage.
Yes I agree with you but what is written in the Bible is the true word of God. Remember, that it was God's plan how Jesus was born. Look back at the book of generation of Jesus Christ, in Mat. Chapter 1:5. God used a common woman Rachab as well.His Divinity has nothing to do with the way He was born,nor where He was born.We have to understand from all these that God has His way of working and His ways are not our ways...Isaiah chapter 55 vs.8-9. Do you think His people would have accepted Him if He was born from a well known couple? I don't think so. God knows exactly what He is doing things the way He is doing it.It needs a lot of faith to accept things He is doing now in our lives. That's why we have to see, accept and obey His word. This needs a lot of prayer and Discretion.
"You may not like or approve of what I've said, but what are you going to do about it?"