I and the father are one.

[Muffled]

That is indeed a good thing to know about one's own self.

Yet a Messeger of God is the Truth and that is indeed a good thing to know about Baha'u'llah, as that is the gift of a God given Faith.

Regards Tony

I believe the Holy Spirit does not agree with you.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe the Holy Spirit does not agree with you.

Yes, I like many find it hard to submit.

Regards Tony

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The following is from a Shiite brother (not me):

Salaam Aleikum,

Famous Gospel verse from John 10:30

I and the Father are one.

But it does not stop here, the most crucial part is the next verses where Jesus (عليه السلام) will clarify what does he mean by it.

Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

- Jesus (عليه السلام) was referring to Psalms 82:6

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Here You are Gods and Sons of the Most High does not mean literal as Gods or that God literal Sons. Rather this means that they are agents of God, who represent the message and the commandments and the way that God have chosen for humankind. Their work/actions would be as what God want them to work/act.

I and The Father are one

This is equivalent in the Qur'an when God says:

He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian. 4:80

Your friend was not misguided nor was he misled, nor does he speak out of personal desire. It is but an inspiration being inspired. 53:2-4

Another interesting to notice is the how Jews reacted on the matter. They almost right away took the stone and wanted to kill him, because they thought that he is saying that Jesus and God are One in Essence. Jesus denies it and explained them by referring the psalms 82:6 which is understood by jews clearly.

Qur'an want to clarify and make sure that Psalms 82:6 does not mean to take it literally but as in figurative:

Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity. 23:91

Yes.
And also, keep in mind that the Greek language, in which this was written, didn’t have the indefinite articles “a” and “an”, like English. The English translator needs to added it where needed. So while many translations word John 10:33, “….making yourself God”, it should read “making yourself *a* god.”

If the Jews really thought that Jesus was saying that he was *the* God, then they would have accused him of that, at his Sanhedrin trial recorded in all 4 gospels. Yet never once did they bring it up!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Can you cite scripture which details the Kingdom of God. If I recall, all there is in the Gospel is a parable about mustard seed. The prarable could be interpretted both positively and negatively. It's ambiguous.

Not according to the book of John. Maybe it's in other scripture? You're welcome to prove me wrong.
Scripture please?

Hey, hope you and yours are doing well.

Well how about this?….
Matthew 6:9-10, where Jesus taught his followers to pray, “Let Thy (his Father’s) Kingdom come.”
Question: would Jesus want his followers to pray for something bad?

Matthew 24:14, “…good news of the Kingdom will be preached…”
See Isaiah 9:6-7, “the government ….on his shoulders”, bringing ‘justice & righteousness’, will be wonderful for humans!

 

[Muffled]

Yes, I like many find it hard to submit.

Regards Tony

I believe it is easier than you think. After you have the Holy Spirit He will adjust your thinking about the B man.

 

[Soapy]

In order to understand this, as Jesus said as recorded in the holy Bible, we would also have to recognize that he came from heaven and had been in heaven, but was not when he was on the earth. Salaam.

I think you will find that Jesus never said he came from Heaven.

Jesus says he was ‘sent’ into the ‘world’ by God.

I think the simple fact that GOD sent him means that Jesus is not God.

‘Sent’: Jesus was sent AFTER he was baptised with the spirit of God.

‘The World’: This means ‘to face adversity; temptation, wickedness; sinfulness’

Hence, when Jesus had completed the task GOD sent him to perform Jesus said:

• ‘I am no longer IN THE WORLD’

and to the disciples:

• ‘But you are still in the world’

Understand therefore, that Jesus mean that he no longer faced sinfulness, temptation, adversity because he had conquered all such things… but the disciples (soon to be called Apostles) would face such until their own death.

And, parenthetically, Jesus DID NOT SAY that he was ‘Going BACK’ to Heaven. He said only that he was ‘Going to the Father’!! This indicates a first time event.

Add to that, Jesus only mentioned going to the Father. If there was a trinity then Jesus would have had to say, ‘I am going to the Father and the spirit of God’ (sounds silly, doesn’t it!!?)…

Do you notice also that both Jesus and the spirit of God are SENT By The Father? Trinity says there is equality in all three of their ‘God people’ but yet it is a constant that the Father is greater than either of the other two…. In fact, even the trinity creed states in the very first two lines that the Father is the creator of ALL THINGS… yet Trinitarians (who are believers of this creed) say:

• ‘No, Jesus is the creator of all things!’

but, on realising their grave error, restate later (but not change the former!!!!) that:

• ‘The Father created ALL THINGS THROUGH Jesus’

And, by this, they weirdly explain, that because they now say Jesus created all things but it was through the Father, the Father did not create all things but ALL THREE trinity beings created all things! Yet, yoh will quickly notice that no mention was ever made about the third ‘person’ of the trinity creating anything… they just kinda snucked it in as an after-thought when questions were asked (remember that in the times of the creation of the creed up until fairly recently it was a sin worthy of spiritual death not to believe what the trinity church taught… you could not question the church!! Hence it is only the very brave who could express the errors of trinity ideology!)

 

[Muffled]

I believe being sent does not eliminate the divinity of Jesus. It is not incomprehensible that God can send Himself and did.

 

[Soapy]

I believe being sent does not eliminate the divinity of Jesus. It is not incomprehensible that God can send Himself and did.

Completely incorrect. God always uses angels to do his bidding.

God is not an angel.

How does your inseparable Trio person God separate one of himself to be sent….

Moreover, the ‘Sent’ in ‘sent Jesus’ means that Jesus was made to face unrighteousness, adversity and wickedness in the world. Hence it only occurred after Jesus was baptised with the spirit of God.

After Jesus conquered adversity, wickedness and unrighteousness, Jesus said, ‘Father, it is done….’ And to the disciples: ‘I am no longer in the world … but you are still in the world… I SEND YOU [into the world just as my Father sent me [into the world]…
Now, it could scarely be that the disciples were not ‘on earth’ when Jesus ‘sent them’ therefore the ‘being sent’ is not about the physical world but rather, the disciples were to face adversity, unrighteousness, and wickedness, just as Jesus had:

• “Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.” (Romans 12:2)

Being in or of the world means participating in wickedness, sinfulness, unrighteousness and doing what else is unpleasant to God.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe being sent does not eliminate the divinity of Jesus. It is not incomprehensible that God can send Himself and did.

God does not die. No part of God dies. His hands do not die, his feet do not die, HE does not die. Jesus was not a god or God in human form. He was not a trinity in human form.

 

[YoursTrue]

I think you will find that Jesus never said he came from Heaven.

Jesus says he was ‘sent’ into the ‘world’ by God.

I think the simple fact that GOD sent him means that Jesus is not God.

‘Sent’: Jesus was sent AFTER he was baptised with the spirit of God.

‘The World’: This means ‘to face adversity; temptation, wickedness; sinfulness’

Hence, when Jesus had completed the task GOD sent him to perform Jesus said:

• ‘I am no longer IN THE WORLD’

and to the disciples:

• ‘But you are still in the world’

Understand therefore, that Jesus mean that he no longer faced sinfulness, temptation, adversity because he had conquered all such things… but the disciples (soon to be called Apostles) would face such until their own death.

And, parenthetically, Jesus DID NOT SAY that he was ‘Going BACK’ to Heaven. He said only that he was ‘Going to the Father’!! This indicates a first time event.

Add to that, Jesus only mentioned going to the Father. If there was a trinity then Jesus would have had to say, ‘I am going to the Father and the spirit of God’ (sounds silly, doesn’t it!!?)…

Do you notice also that both Jesus and the spirit of God are SENT By The Father? Trinity says there is equality in all three of their ‘God people’ but yet it is a constant that the Father is greater than either of the other two…. In fact, even the trinity creed states in the very first two lines that the Father is the creator of ALL THINGS… yet Trinitarians (who are believers of this creed) say:

• ‘No, Jesus is the creator of all things!’

but, on realising their grave error, restate later (but not change the former!!!!) that:

• ‘The Father created ALL THINGS THROUGH Jesus’

And, by this, they weirdly explain, that because they now say Jesus created all things but it was through the Father, the Father did not create all things but ALL THREE trinity beings created all things! Yet, yoh will quickly notice that no mention was ever made about the third ‘person’ of the trinity creating anything… they just kinda snucked it in as an after-thought when questions were asked (remember that in the times of the creation of the creed up until fairly recently it was a sin worthy of spiritual death not to believe what the trinity church taught… you could not question the church!! Hence it is only the very brave who could express the errors of trinity ideology!)

He did say that he wanted to go back to where he was before, didn't he?

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe being sent does not eliminate the divinity of Jesus. It is not incomprehensible that God can send Himself and did.

I'd like to mention something here about divinity. Considering Colossians 2:9 shows that having “divinity,” or “divine nature,” does not make Christ the same as the One that sent him. Paul says in the previous chapter that “God saw good for all fullness to dwell in him.” (Col 1:19) So all fullness dwells in Christ because it “pleased the Father” (King James and Douay translation), and it was “by God’s own choice.” So the fullness of the divinity that dwells in Christ is his because that is what the Father decided. This does not make Christ the same person as Almighty God. Paul later speaks of Christ as being “seated at the right hand of God.”—Col 3:1.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I think you will find that Jesus never said he came from Heaven.

Hey, hope you are doing well!

What do you think of John 3:13?

Accepting that, has no bearing on Jesus’ position. I mean, angels are in heaven.
That reminds me: an interesting scripture is Galatians 4:14.

 

[Soapy]

He did say that he wanted to go back to where he was before, didn't he?

It sounds odd but each time a trinity believing person presents invalid ‘proof’, I am glad!

Glad??? Yes, because it shows that trinity can only maintains itself by creating falsehoods - much like you do here!

So, No! Jesus never said he was going BACK anywhere. Such a misrepresentation of the words of the Lord Jesus Christ does not endear truth seekers to the irreverent ideology of trinitarianism.
“Going back to where he was before’ is only what trinitarian mistranslate Jesus’ words to say. And why invent lies and thus subject Jesus to duplicity (just as many of the Jews accused him of)?

Jesus only said that he was ‘GOING TO THE FATHER’. The trinitarian translators ADDED the word, ‘Back’ for their own ideology.

The Greek from which the vets is translated from DOES NOT contain the word.

If you can show a valid verse of the scriptures in which Jesus says he is returning anywhere then please present it.

Reminder: Jesus only ever said that he was ‘going TO the Father’.

 

[Soapy]

Hey, hope you are doing well!

What do you think of John 3:13?

Accepting that, has no bearing on Jesus’ position. I mean, angels are in heaven.
That reminds me: an interesting scripture is Galatians 4:14.

No! The verse does not say what you are claiming. Exactly like what YoursTrue mispresented, the verse is mistranslated for trinitarian delectation (aka: falsehood!)

The verse is related to DEATH: No man has ascended up to Heaven except he first DESCENDED [into the Grave].

The true verse says that No one has gone to Heaven without first DYING and being REBORN - even Jesus Christ!

Even Jesus Christ first DIED before he was resurrected and taken up to Heaven BY ALMIGHTY GOD.

John 3:13 is written in reference to Jesus having been raised up and WAS THEN IN HEAVEN. Before Jesus was taken up to Heaven by God there was no notion of any such thing as ‘Going to Heaven’ nor ‘Coming from Heaven’. except for angels.

In a few places where Jesus is said to have ‘Come’, trinitarian translators have ADDED the words ‘From Heaven’ in order to deceive the reader.

It must be noted that the claim of Jesus coming from heaven is only deceitfully made in the Gospel of John (a well known trinitarian playground!)

 

[YoursTrue]

It sounds odd but each time a trinity believing person presents invalid ‘proof’, I am glad!

Glad??? Yes, because it shows that trinity can only maintains itself by creating falsehoods - much like you do here!

So, No! Jesus never said he was going BACK anywhere. Such a misrepresentation of the words of the Lord Jesus Christ does not endear truth seekers to the irreverent ideology of trinitarianism.
“Going back to where he was before’ is only what trinitarian mistranslate Jesus’ words to say. And why invent lies and thus subject Jesus to duplicity (just as many of the Jews accused him of)?

Jesus only said that he was ‘GOING TO THE FATHER’. The trinitarian translators ADDED the word, ‘Back’ for their own ideology.

The Greek from which the vets is translated from DOES NOT contain the word.

If you can show a valid verse of the scriptures in which Jesus says he is returning anywhere then please present it.

Reminder: Jesus only ever said that he was ‘going TO the Father’.

OK, you spoke of translations. (1) Do you believe Jesus was born of a virgin, i.e., that Mary did not have sexual intercourse with a man before she gave birth to Jesus? and (2) perhaps more importantly, what translation are you using that you like?

 

[Soapy]

OK, you spoke of translations. (1) Do you believe Jesus was born of a virgin, i.e., that Mary did not have sexual intercourse with a man before she gave birth to Jesus? and (2) perhaps more importantly, what translation are you using that you like?

I believe that Jesus was born from the Virgin Mary by the overshadowing of the spirit of God.

I believe that, spiritually, sin in man comes from the ‘sperm’ from the Father.

The egg of the female is nothing more than the fleshly building block of the body of the child. It should be noted carefully that the egg is extruded unceremoniously ‘to the ground’ on a monthly basis. This means that the egg is of little importance on a spiritual level.

The ‘overshadowing’ (whatever that is meant since it was translated from the times of the Hebrews when full sexual biology was not a well known science - just an act!) meant that, instead of sinful ‘sperm’, it was holy ‘germination’ of the seed of the virgin - the seed made to ‘come alive: to be inspirited’ . Thus, there was no sin in the foetus. A pure creation…. Just as the body of Adam was made ‘come alive: to be inspirited’ by the ‘overshadowing’ of the spirit of God.

Scriptures says that the Angel told Mary that BECAUSE the spirit of God has enlivened the egg in her, the child TO BE BORN WILL BE HOLY.

See, it has nothing to do with a pre-existent God-person. The child (purposely to be named ‘JOSHUA’: “for he shall save his people”!) was created a sinless, holy, and righteous person just as Adam WAS before he sinned: hence, ‘Jesus’ is called, ‘The LAST ADAM’ (since no other Adam would ever be created!)

‘Translation’: why are you asking me about translation. Fixation on a single Bible version is a very misleading way to study scriptures. Each biblical translation has their agenda and thus is unreliable… dangerous, even!

UNDERSTANDING the scriptures… DESPITE the mistranslated parts… is the key to understanding the scriptures. Decoding the hidden truths leads to fuller understanding.

I don’t know if you can understand but information and data we hold as humans is constantly being attempted to be corrupted. To wayslay that we put in place codes and integrity checks and multiple copies in multiple places so if any one check fails that failure can be corrected by reference to other fully checked copies.

Well, if mankind can know and set in place such error-checks and error-corrections……. what do you think? Are we greater than God? Do you not think that God knows that corruption would be forced into his words given to man? Do you not think then that God would put in place error-correction algorithms to protect his word to man?

The Bible, no matter which translation, can be error-checked and invalid verses or themes corrected or removed. A good tip towards this is to find THREE places that reflect the same theme. You may find that one of those places is slightly different (or more likely, crudely modified to reflect the agenda of a given belief!). The problem: you won’t like it when you find that your favourite belief is an actual mistranslation or has been added to create the illusion of your belief!. For instance, trinity ADDED a full verse claiming ‘three in Heaven as witness: Father; sin; holy spirit’… This was discovered and REMOVED from Bible translations (but at least one Bible STILL has it… why??? It has been ADMITTED that it was a wrongful addition but a trinity Bible still uses it to deceive its readers…. Can there be a claimed belief tell a lies: Yes! When it is a false belief!!!

 

[Soapy]

Yes.
And also, keep in mind that the Greek language, in which this was written, didn’t have the indefinite articles “a” and “an”, like English. The English translator needs to added it where needed. So while many translations word John 10:33, “….making yourself God”, it should read “making yourself *a* god.”

If the Jews really thought that Jesus was saying that he was *the* God, then they would have accused him of that, at his Sanhedrin trial recorded in all 4 gospels. Yet never once did they bring it up!

It could also be that those word were ADDED IN by the translators to try to force another failed attempt at developing Jesus as trinity person.

Nonetheless, it appears Jesus completely refuted any claims by saying that he

• “had only called God his Father”

Even Jews themselves called God, their Father since they knew and believed in the Father as their God.

No one flinched or batted an eye when Jesus told the disciples he was going to his God and their God; his Father and their Father.

Why? Because anyone who does the works of God is a Son of God; and God is Father to all who do his works….

A ‘Son’ always does what his Father instructs him to do….

• “If [Jesus] was not doing so then do not believe [him]”
• “All who are led by the spirit of God are children of God”

So far, there is only one who has succeeded: Jesus Christ…. Therefore he is called:

• “The only [human] son of God”

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe that Jesus was born from the Virgin Mary by the overshadowing of the spirit of God.

I believe that, spiritually, sin in man comes from the ‘sperm’ from the Father.

The egg of the female is nothing more than the fleshly building block of the body of the child. It should be noted carefully that the egg is extruded unceremoniously ‘to the ground’ on a monthly basis. This means that the egg is of little importance on a spiritual level.

The ‘overshadowing’ (whatever that is meant since it was translated from the times of the Hebrews when full sexual biology was not a well known science - just an act!) meant that, instead of sinful ‘sperm’, it was holy ‘germination’ of the seed of the virgin - the seed made to ‘come alive: to be inspirited’ . Thus, there was no sin in the foetus. A pure creation…. Just as the body of Adam was made ‘come alive: to be inspirited’ by the ‘overshadowing’ of the spirit of God.

Scriptures says that the Angel told Mary that BECAUSE the spirit of God has enlivened the egg in her, the child TO BE BORN WILL BE HOLY.

See, it has nothing to do with a pre-existent God-person. The child (purposely to be named ‘JOSHUA’: “for he shall save his people”!) was created a sinless, holy, and righteous person just as Adam WAS before he sinned: hence, ‘Jesus’ is called, ‘The LAST ADAM’ (since no other Adam would ever be created!)

‘Translation’: why are you asking me about translation. Fixation on a single Bible version is a very misleading way to study scriptures. Each biblical translation has their agenda and thus is unreliable… dangerous, even!

UNDERSTANDING the scriptures… DESPITE the mistranslated parts… is the key to understanding the scriptures. Decoding the hidden truths leads to fuller understanding.

I don’t know if you can understand but information and data we hold as humans is constantly being attempted to be corrupted. To wayslay that we put in place codes and integrity checks and multiple copies in multiple places so if any one check fails that failure can be corrected by reference to other fully checked copies.

Well, if mankind can know and set in place such error-checks and error-corrections……. what do you think? Are we greater than God? Do you not think that God knows that corruption would be forced into his words given to man? Do you not think then that God would put in place error-correction algorithms to protect his word to man?

The Bible, no matter which translation, can be error-checked and invalid verses or themes corrected or removed. A good tip towards this is to find THREE places that reflect the same theme. You may find that one of those places is slightly different (or more likely, crudely modified to reflect the agenda of a given belief!). The problem: you won’t like it when you find that your favourite belief is an actual mistranslation or has been added to create the illusion of your belief!. For instance, trinity ADDED a full verse claiming ‘three in Heaven as witness: Father; sin; holy spirit’… This was discovered and REMOVED from Bible translations (but at least one Bible STILL has it… why??? It has been ADMITTED that it was a wrongful addition but a trinity Bible still uses it to deceive its readers…. Can there be a claimed belief tell a lies: Yes! When it is a false belief!!!

One reason I am asking you about what translation you use or like above others is because you make statements about translation without substantiation.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe that Jesus was born from the Virgin Mary by the overshadowing of the spirit of God.

I believe that, spiritually, sin in man comes from the ‘sperm’ from the Father.

The egg of the female is nothing more than the fleshly building block of the body of the child. It should be noted carefully that the egg is extruded unceremoniously ‘to the ground’ on a monthly basis. This means that the egg is of little importance on a spiritual level.

The ‘overshadowing’ (whatever that is meant since it was translated from the times of the Hebrews when full sexual biology was not a well known science - just an act!) meant that, instead of sinful ‘sperm’, it was holy ‘germination’ of the seed of the virgin - the seed made to ‘come alive: to be inspirited’ . Thus, there was no sin in the foetus. A pure creation…. Just as the body of Adam was made ‘come alive: to be inspirited’ by the ‘overshadowing’ of the spirit of God.

Scriptures says that the Angel told Mary that BECAUSE the spirit of God has enlivened the egg in her, the child TO BE BORN WILL BE HOLY.

See, it has nothing to do with a pre-existent God-person. The child (purposely to be named ‘JOSHUA’: “for he shall save his people”!) was created a sinless, holy, and righteous person just as Adam WAS before he sinned: hence, ‘Jesus’ is called, ‘The LAST ADAM’ (since no other Adam would ever be created!)

‘Translation’: why are you asking me about translation. Fixation on a single Bible version is a very misleading way to study scriptures. Each biblical translation has their agenda and thus is unreliable… dangerous, even!

UNDERSTANDING the scriptures… DESPITE the mistranslated parts… is the key to understanding the scriptures. Decoding the hidden truths leads to fuller understanding.

I don’t know if you can understand but information and data we hold as humans is constantly being attempted to be corrupted. To wayslay that we put in place codes and integrity checks and multiple copies in multiple places so if any one check fails that failure can be corrected by reference to other fully checked copies.

Well, if mankind can know and set in place such error-checks and error-corrections……. what do you think? Are we greater than God? Do you not think that God knows that corruption would be forced into his words given to man? Do you not think then that God would put in place error-correction algorithms to protect his word to man?

The Bible, no matter which translation, can be error-checked and invalid verses or themes corrected or removed. A good tip towards this is to find THREE places that reflect the same theme. You may find that one of those places is slightly different (or more likely, crudely modified to reflect the agenda of a given belief!). The problem: you won’t like it when you find that your favourite belief is an actual mistranslation or has been added to create the illusion of your belief!. For instance, trinity ADDED a full verse claiming ‘three in Heaven as witness: Father; sin; holy spirit’… This was discovered and REMOVED from Bible translations (but at least one Bible STILL has it… why??? It has been ADMITTED that it was a wrongful addition but a trinity Bible still uses it to deceive its readers…. Can there be a claimed belief tell a lies: Yes! When it is a false belief!!!

First please answer question about translation otherwise everything you say is truly in serious question especially since you bring up translation in response to what you think it should be. Thanks.

 

[Soapy]

One reason I am asking you about what translation you use or like above others is because you make statements about translation without substantiation.

You obvious didn’t read what I stated to you. You didn’t see the part about error-correction and validation from other sources.

I did state that you might not understand this.