outhouse
Atheistically
You have done this since you started here, it is one constant ad hominem after another.
You know you don't have ANY ground to stand on so your replies are all personal attacks with no credibility or SUBSTANCE
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*[I believe] Atheism is an absurd worldview
- Thread starter Gambit
- Start date
You have done this since you started here, it is one constant ad hominem after another.
You know you don't have ANY ground to stand on so your replies are all personal attacks with no credibility or SUBSTANCE
outhouse
Atheistically
Your no one to talk.
You have avoided science since you have been here, quote mining constantly one side of the philosophical arguments
outhouse
Atheistically
No evidence suggest anywhere a reality has any amount of conscious thought
Reflex
Active Member
I know what viole means regarding information, but what if Maxwell's demon were existence itself, the dynamic system itself, not unlike the DS? DNA, for example, is a concentration of information that comes at the expense information in the whole. Such a concentration of information is equivalent to an increase in meaning—self-consciousness—whereas in its original state, consciousness is present but not concentrated, not meaningful.
If consciousness exists at all, and if one wants to avoid avoid invoking the magic of an effect entirely absent in its cause, reason demands that evolution be understood as the concentration of powers and qualities derived, not from an unconscious potential, but from a superior type of conscious life which already possesses them.
In religious terms, the character of God could not possibly be intrinsically improved upon without violating the SLT, but it is amplified by the self-willed divestment of all that which is nonspiritual and pure potential—Maxwell's demon at play. The “demon” is much more than consciousness and personality, but all of the spirit qualities of the “demon,” the First Source and Center, are spiritually present in the personalities of his sons.
DS=divine simplicity
SLT=second law of thermodynamics
If consciousness exists at all, and if one wants to avoid avoid invoking the magic of an effect entirely absent in its cause, reason demands that evolution be understood as the concentration of powers and qualities derived, not from an unconscious potential, but from a superior type of conscious life which already possesses them.
In religious terms, the character of God could not possibly be intrinsically improved upon without violating the SLT, but it is amplified by the self-willed divestment of all that which is nonspiritual and pure potential—Maxwell's demon at play. The “demon” is much more than consciousness and personality, but all of the spirit qualities of the “demon,” the First Source and Center, are spiritually present in the personalities of his sons.
DS=divine simplicity
SLT=second law of thermodynamics
outhouse
Atheistically
Any chance you could reword this so it has some kind of meaning ???
It is factual pseudoscience they way it is written
outhouse
Atheistically
outhouse
Atheistically
Nothing you could ever show or present with any credibility at all
We shouldn't be. Such a belief is in violation of empirical as well as theoretical evidence.
I went looking for a source from which to quote from that was
1) non-technical
&
2) at least sympathetic to religious views.
I decided to go with Paul Davies' The Matter Myth:
"For our purposes, the central feature of the quantum theory is indeterminism. The old physics linked all events in a tight chain-mesh of cause and effect. But on the atomic scale the linkage turns out to be loose and imprecise. Events occur without well-defined causes. Matter and motion become fuzzy and indistinct. Particles do not follow well-defined paths, and forces do not produce dependable actions. The precision clockwork of classical Newtonian mechanics gives way to a ghostly melee of half-forms...
One of the bizarre consequences of quantum uncertainty is that matter can appear out of nowhere. In classical physics, energy is a conserved quantity; that is, it can be neither created or destroyed, only changed in one form into another. Quantum mechanics permits energy to appear spontaneously from nothing..."
(emphases added)
It is not a question of worldview. It is empirical evidence. And by the way, if 99,999% of the population believe X, that does not make X true. I think there is a name for this fallacy.
For instance, in my country (Sweden) people who claim to believe in God are about 20% (including Islam).
For sure you do not have 80% of naturalists in Sweden. Many believe in a spiritual life force, whatever that is, some are kopimists, some think they are jedis, etc.
Ciao
- viole
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I actually hate dancing.
I was trying to be helpful. And I do not like to kill debates too easily. I could have used those books (which I guess refer to Quantum Mechanics) to show you that things can begin to exist without a cause, and be finished with it. See also post #1169.
By the way, you still owe me an answer. If we assume that your will to write that post activated a chain of physical events, but was not caused by a prior chain of physical events, as you hold, what caused it? The uncaused cause?
I would be curious to find out on which one of the books you mentioned it is written that physical information is not conserved.
Please indulge my lack of skills in spiritual thinking, but I really do not know what you mean with Ultimate reality. Is there a reality which is not Ultimate? Or is it just yet another deepity? Using reality without a proper definition might be misleading.
Ciao
- viole
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Simple:
X(0) is caused by X(1)
X(1) is caused by X(2)
....
X(n) is caused by X(n+1)
......
ad infinitum.
It seems, at least, possible.
Ciao
- viole
That is not a real rebuttal. It seems to be motivated by emotion or incredulity rather that by rationality.
And I would not say that thought is arbitrary or destroyed. It is as arbitrary as the form and shape of a stick insect in a forest, also the likely product of unconscious mechanisms. Or what about feeling physical pain? Can I reduce it by thinking that this is just the product of mechanisms that have no pain? Did I destroy the concept of pain?
You might say that thought is different from morphology, but you would beg the question. You would assume dualism in your premises and that only under this premise (your version of) thought exists or makes sense. And thought can be very well the product of morphology as well.
I really do not see how "mechanical" processes generating thought, entail thought being arbitrary. I am typing on a computer and my judgement tells me that I am doing exactly that. The fact that I believe that my judgement is ultimately the product of processes without judgement does not entail that my judgement about the typing on this computer scenario is arbitrary or meaningless. Or that I am in a self-defeating position. It would be like saying that water is not wet, because it is made with subatomic particles for which wetness makes no sense.
I am myself a very advanced organic computer, and the fact that what I think is reducible to information processing with a high level of parallelism, does not imply that this computer in my skull operates arbitrarily or that what it interprets about the world has no true/false value. That would be the exact contrary of what this organic machine computes to true.
Ciao
- viole
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outhouse
Atheistically
Don't hold your breath.
His M.O. is to run fast from every question and dictate his fallacious questions as statements of certainty.
McBell
Unbound
you really need a new song and dance.
The repeating ad nauseum of this one, regardless of how you reword it, just makes you look bad.
SpeaksForTheTrees
Well-Known Member
I say what's on my mind then worry about consequence .
Athiesm =: From my prespective is a no brainer ,still in 2016 , maybe I was just raised by really nice people that never oppressed me in anyway as a child , it biases my judgement of people , always sometimes at my own expense have given people the benefit of doubt , just out of courtesy , but that is not the way the world is . Is dog eat dog cannabalistic world was shocked by the division to be honest when i first joined rf and tread on a few.
Potentially we still in a world of poly , leaders can't agree if its the same God or not , is millions of forms in Hinduism .
So which god are you arguing against . To suggest is nothing greater than yourself , I can only agree , is a fair argument .
Is no world doctorine of one god in a world that has many , just look at the religious forums , they tear each other apart over me , haha goto have a laugh cant leave in my note things didnt really fit in with my philosophy , now i know that if humans could get on with things , My God isn't worried if you believe in him or not .
A donkey that doesn't need to be lead by carrot overhaul is a better asset ?.
Look at the universe , god likes progress , religious divides slow us down no end and potentially threaten? its very existence is a dangerous situation in the world .
I'd compromise past half way to make it safer place , they won't budge , so before I can add support to such a suggestion is more pressing matters , religion and memories of ww2 fun is all that keeping things together.
We really clever creatures , some of the inventions blow me away , but I wasn't hoping literally . Blind faith ,Boom
Athiesm =: From my prespective is a no brainer ,still in 2016 , maybe I was just raised by really nice people that never oppressed me in anyway as a child , it biases my judgement of people , always sometimes at my own expense have given people the benefit of doubt , just out of courtesy , but that is not the way the world is . Is dog eat dog cannabalistic world was shocked by the division to be honest when i first joined rf and tread on a few.
Potentially we still in a world of poly , leaders can't agree if its the same God or not , is millions of forms in Hinduism .
So which god are you arguing against . To suggest is nothing greater than yourself , I can only agree , is a fair argument .
Is no world doctorine of one god in a world that has many , just look at the religious forums , they tear each other apart over me , haha goto have a laugh cant leave in my note things didnt really fit in with my philosophy , now i know that if humans could get on with things , My God isn't worried if you believe in him or not .
A donkey that doesn't need to be lead by carrot overhaul is a better asset ?.
Look at the universe , god likes progress , religious divides slow us down no end and potentially threaten? its very existence is a dangerous situation in the world .
I'd compromise past half way to make it safer place , they won't budge , so before I can add support to such a suggestion is more pressing matters , religion and memories of ww2 fun is all that keeping things together.
We really clever creatures , some of the inventions blow me away , but I wasn't hoping literally . Blind faith ,Boom
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You're not real?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
outhouse
Atheistically
Pervert context out of its actual meaning much?
You're not exempt from reality.