I believe in Creation ...and Evolution

[Uncertaindrummer]

And all the people who thought the atom was the smallest thing in the world… and undividable… were wrong? All of them?

Yes, they were. I was merely wondering if you thought the entire scientific community was wrong. We have clarified it. Passerby thinks he is smarter than every scientist on Earth.

How do you know? Were you there?

I know that the ideas of timekeeping have changed and that not all of us even have kept it the same way.

What Bible are you reading?

The one that says God is Infinite. An infintie God can't be bound by time.

Really? Okay… you believe in evolution… so… let’s see if you can give me evidence that points towards that… that also fits in with your old earth.

No I don't necessarily believe in evolution. I think its a possiblity which has enough evidence to make it a hypothesis, and enoguh evidence agaisnt it to keep it from being a law.

The only things that point to old earth are the dating methods… and the stars. Both are assumptions.

The only thing that points to a young Earth is one passage in the Bible which is taken as literal--an assumption.

Not much basis but it sounds crazy enough for me to stick with until a better idea is presented. I know it sounds ridiculous but so does a lot of things, and I have not bothered to research why it would not be possible. It’s just an idea that I had and kept. If you know enough about physics to tell me why it is not possible then please share and if I have no way of backing it up further (which I don’t have much to back it up so that would be easy) then the idea will be thrown out (which I have no problem with).

How about that fact that if God "threw" the stars He would have had to break the laws of physics to get them there in time. If He did that, then the whole discussino is moot because there are no laws of anything.

Most likely God was establishing the importance of the 7th day. So he created the world in a way that would make it VERY important. Why do you think the earth is old?

Because sceicne says so. Show me where there is ANY evidence outside of your ambiguous interpretations of this passage and maybe I'll change my mind. God didn't write the Bible, He INSPIRED it.

Jesus taught in parables… so in hearing they would not understand. This was used in the same manner as God telling Abraham to kill his son. God does not want a “fair weather friend”. It was also explained at the Passover what he was saying. He was also not speaking of things of the past. All this makes it useless to try linking an interpretation of this to Genesis, since they don’t have much in common.

You are not really arguing in your favor here... Jesus spoke in parables and God often did things we don't understand. Why do you assume you know that this passage is something YOU understand?

 

[painted wolf]

For the theists that are evolutionary theists, how do you reconcile the idea of genetic drift?

for me it isn't a problem... My faith doesn't rest on an Adam/Eve story.

wa:do

 

[Ryan2065]

And all the people who thought the atom was the smallest thing in the world… and undividable… were wrong? All of them?

First off, where is your proof that they were wrong? Or are you putting words in scientists mouths? I believe what most scientists have thought (I think it was Aristotle who came up with this theory but could be wrong...) is that you can only split something in half so many times and that after a certain number of times it would no longer be the same material. And as far as I know, that hasn't recently been proven wrong. You split a carbon atom in half you no longer have a carbon atom.

 

[Scott1]

for me it isn't a problem... My faith doesn't rest on an Adam/Eve story.

wa:do

Ditto.... even the wa:do

Scott

 

[Uncertaindrummer]

First off, where is your proof that they were wrong? Or are you putting words in scientists mouths? I believe what most scientists have thought (I think it was Aristotle who came up with this theory but could be wrong...) is that you can only split something in half so many times and that after a certain number of times it would no longer be the same material. And as far as I know, that hasn't recently been proven wrong. You split a carbon atom in half you no longer have a carbon atom.

Quite true. Atoms ARE the smallest things. Split it in half and you get energy--no more matter.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Quite true. Atoms ARE the smallest things. Split it in half and you get energy--no more matter.

Theoretically you cannot split an atom by definition. (Chemistry text book definition of atom: the smallest indivisible particle)
However other than the smallest atom H, you can split other type of atom for example one carbon atom into 12 hydrogen atoms, provided you can find some electron and proton and energy somewhere to add to the original carbon atom.:bounce

 

[Uncertaindrummer]

Well... you knew what I meant!

 

[Ceridwen018]

Hiya Zaid,

DNA does not exist outside of the cell.

This is quite correct. DNA stays inside of the nucleus for most of the time, and inside the boundaries of the cell's membrane all the time. However, the materials that are made by the DNA, such as proteins, enzymes, etc., travel outside of the cell, between cells, and pretty much everywhere else.

Enzymic reactions can not generate the shape of an arm or a foot.

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, Zaid, but my simple rebuttle to this statement is: Yes they can, and do. This entire sentence of yours is blatantly incorrect, and is challenging volumes of scientific findings and data.

2. Allah (God) Almighty created everything from water (thus it is a design process not evolution). The evidence for this is written large in the pictures shown. It is not a coincidence that everything in creation has the hexagonal structure in it.

But everything doesn't follow the pattern of hexagonal structure! Where can it be seen in humans, for instance? I've never seen a naturally hexagonal rock....the list goes on.

 

[Lady Crimson]

Wow ...I can't believe this thread is still alive!...thank the heavens I started it! of course, now it's probably all about something else.

 

[matey]

Who says you HAVE to believe in Evolution? I believe in the God and His Word as it is in the Bible. Evolution is a scientific theory and, in my eyes, does not need to be believed in. My belief lies in God, not man. I have faith in God. The Bible says God created the world, and I believe it.

 

[Ceridwen018]

Who says you HAVE to believe in Evolution? I believe in the God and His Word as it is in the Bible. Evolution is a scientific theory and, in my eyes, does not need to be believed in. My belief lies in God, not man. I have faith in God. The Bible says God created the world, and I believe it.

And Hans Christian Anderson said that a little mermaid turned into a human and married a prince. Whoopdy-do.

To be honest, I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs. If you want to believe that the moon is made of green cheese and that leprechauns cause earthquakes, then so be it. I only start to have a problem with other people's beliefs when they try to impose them upon others, and the evolution/creation issue has hit upon that very sensitive button.

 

[michel]

Hi Matey;

My views on your answer is much the same as Ceridwen's - but hey, we're all entitled to our personal views!

As I notice that this is your first post, I thought I would like to welcome you to the forum.

You might like to have a look at :- Articles for New Members ; from there, there is a link to the forum rules, which you ought to see.

Perhaps you would post here : Are you new to ReligiousForums.com? , so that you can introduce yourself.............

I hope you enjoy being here, and I look forward to your posts.

 

[huajiro]

call me a dreamer, call me a (introduce bad word), call me what you will but I think that Evolution and Creation can go hand in hand. I mean, why can't our Creator (whoever he may be ) have created the amiba or paramecium first? and then we could have evolved into what we are today. You first need the seed to grow the plant. Why are we so egotistical as to believe that He created us as we are today? He just planted the seed and let mother nature (Evolution) do the rest.

My feelings exactly. I have had many an argument with Christians over this. Who is to say that "God" didn't create the chemicals that became the single-celled amoeba, lnowing that they would become a "Man"? The "Bible" says that the universe was created in 7 days. Who is to say that it wasn't 7 days for "God", 700 million years for "Man"?

 

[Uncertaindrummer]

Who says you HAVE to believe in Evolution? I believe in the God and His Word as it is in the Bible. Evolution is a scientific theory and, in my eyes, does not need to be believed in. My belief lies in God, not man. I have faith in God. The Bible says God created the world, and I believe it.

I certainly don't believe you HAVE to believe in evolution. The argument is that believing in God in NO WAY AT ALL eliminates the possibility of evolution.

 

[Uncertaindrummer]

My feelings exactly. I have had many an argument with Christians over this. Who is to say that "God" didn't create the chemicals that became the single-celled amoeba, lnowing that they would become a "Man"? The "Bible" says that the universe was created in 7 days. Who is to say that it wasn't 7 days for "God", 700 million years for "Man"?

Super evangelical fundamentalist Christians say so And of course they have proof beyond any doubt that we should take it literally... They say so!

 

[Bradley]

scientists believe in evolution because they need their jobs. religious people believe in creation because they need their God.

 

[Uncertaindrummer]

scientists believe in evolution because they need their jobs. religious people believe in creation because they need their God.

First, scientists do not ALL believe in evolution and those who do, do so because there is evidence for it. Second, those who believe in creation are not inhibited from believing in evolution. That is the whole point of this thread...

 

[painted wolf]

er, I believe in evolution because it has more evidence than any mythology.
I beleive in 'creation' in the loose sence that I beleive in Creator, and that Creator initiated everthing( is part of everything) including the natrual processes that run the whole shebang.

Evolution says nothing about the existance of god/creator/whatever you want to call it... It simply explaines the process that happined and is still happining.

wa:do

 

[Ryan2065]

I certainly don't believe you HAVE to believe in evolution. The argument is that believing in God in NO WAY AT ALL eliminates the possibility of evolution.

Really? So there is absolutely no way that life can come about without god? Interesting...
http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/library/falk/OriginOfLife/Origin.htm

It turns out that in some ways, today's scientific notion of the origin of life is just a more sophisticated notion of an old belief that life can arise by spontaneous generation.

It wasn't until the 1920s when Oparin, a Russian and Haldane, an Englishman, independently developed a hypothesis that forced reconsideration of spontaneous generation. Oparin and Haldane agreed that spontaneous generation of life is not possible under present earth conditions but suggested that the earth's surface and atmosphere were far different during its first millions of years of existence at present. Primordial conditions would favor spontaneous generation of life rather than inhibiting it.

Read the rest of the article for the rest of the info =) See, there are theories out there besides the one that says "God made life because its so complex..."

 

[Yerda]

Really? So there is absolutely no way that life can come about without god? Interesting...

I don't believe that is what was meant. The idea that gods do not exclude evolution seems more like the point.