I believe Satan has brain washed most Christians/people.

[viole]

True, a human judge would not pass judgment on anyone other than the specific criminal, but God is not a human judge. God as Creator of all life is the Judge of all life who knows all, sees all, and has the wisdom when and how to pass judgment, from my perspective.

Well, then why did you use the analogy of a human judge?

The problem of course is that God used, in most cases, middle men to pass judgement. So, suppose that I exterminate the family of, say, a mafia boss. Mafia boss, his women, children and pets. Everybody. And then I tell you that God told me to do that, because the children would have become mafia bosses anyway when turned old, or would have applied vendetta for what I did to their father....and his dog too.

Would you believe me?

Now, I expect you will raise the second covenant or similar things at this point.

If that is the case, suppose I did all those nasty things three thousand years ago.

Would you have believed me then?

Ciao

- viole

 

[InChrist]

Again - that is ridiculous.

Babies learn what they are taught growing up. - thus they could have been raised by the Hebrew - rather then killed.

It is an excuse you make for your God, whom murders the innocent for the sins of others.

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It is not an excuse from my perspective since I believe God had valid reasons. If you read the various accounts where the Hebrews or Israelites were told to militarily attack the Canaanites, Amalekites, or other enemies who were engulfed in idolatry and violence each situation was different. Some cities were to be completely destroyed, sometimes it was only the men who were killed, and sometimes the people were to be driven out of the land, but not killed. So this reveals that God had reasons for specific areas and groups of people. He was not just randomly ordering the complete destruction of everyone everywhere. When reading biblical accounts of a later historical period the Canaanites, Amalekites, and other peoples are mentioned again so they were definitely not all killed off.

In some cases the babies were brought up in Hebrew homes, but in the rare cases where the children were to be killed God would have had a valid reason. I think it is quite possible that any culture so completely given over to idolatry and the vile practices such as the Canaanites whose entire system of worship revolved around human sacrifice was totally given over to Satan. The NT and some of the accounts of Jesus in the gospels reveal events of demonic possession of adults, children and animals. It is likely that every person, child, and animal of the Canaanites was dedicated to and possessed by demons. This would be a valid reason that God would not want even the children or animals left alive and He may simply wanted those children to be delivered and freed from such evil to inherit eternal life.

 

[InChrist]

Well, then why did you use the analogy of a human judge?

The problem of course is that God used, in most cases, middle men to pass judgement. So, suppose that I exterminate the family of, say, a mafia boss. Mafia boss, his women, children and pets. Everybody. And then I tell you that God told me to do that, because the children would have become mafia bosses anyway when turned old, or would have applied vendetta for what I did to their father....and his dog too.

Would you believe me?

Now, I expect you will raise the second covenant or similar things at this point.

If that is the case, suppose I did all those nasty things three thousand years ago.

Would you have believed me then?

Ciao

- viole

I would not believe you or anyone who says God told them to kill anyone, outside the accounts for Israel alone, for a specific time alone. Israel was established for a specific purpose and the accounts where God commanded them to cleanse the land militarily of idolatry and wickedness was for a specific reason at that specific point in history. There is no other command or example of God instructing this type of action to anyone else.

 

[Ingledsva]

It is not an excuse from my perspective since I believe God had valid reasons. If you read the various accounts where the Hebrews or Israelites were told to militarily attack the Canaanites, Amalekites, or other enemies who were engulfed in idolatry and violence each situation was different. Some cities were to be completely destroyed, sometimes it was only the men who were killed, and sometimes the people were to be driven out of the land, but not killed. So this reveals that God had reasons for specific areas and groups of people. He was not just randomly ordering the complete destruction of everyone everywhere. When reading biblical accounts of a later historical period the Canaanites, Amalekites, and other peoples are mentioned again so they were definitely not all killed off.*In some cases the babies were brought up in Hebrew homes, but in the rare cases where the children were to be killed God would have had a valid reason. I think it is quite possible that any culture so completely given over to idolatry and the vile practices such as the Canaanites whose entire system of worship revolved around human sacrifice was totally given over to Satan. The NT and some of the accounts of Jesus in the gospels reveal events of demonic possession of adults, children and animals. It is likely that every person, child, and animal of the Canaanites was dedicated to and possessed by demons. This would be a valid reason that God would not want even the children or animals left alive and He may simply wanted those children to be delivered and freed from such evil to inherit eternal life.

Again - excuses - there are no reasons to torture and murder innocent babies.

NONE!

Good grief! Now you are going to excuse murder by saying they were all demon possessed? You have got to be kidding?


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[Ingledsva]

I would not believe you or anyone who says God told them to kill anyone, outside the accounts for Israel alone, for a specific time alone. Israel was established for a specific purpose and the accounts where God commanded them to cleanse the land militarily of idolatry and wickedness was for a specific reason at that specific point in history. There is no other command or example of God instructing this type of action to anyone else.

And you don't even have any proof of this god even existing, - yet you will make excuses for the illogical and immoral things the Bible says he did.

*

 

[InChrist]

Again - excuses - there are no reasons to torture and murder innocent babies.

NONE!

Good grief! Now you are going to excuse murder by saying they were all demon possessed? You have got to be kidding?


*

I agree there is no reason to torture or murder innocent babies so God would not do so, but He may very well have had reason to end their physical life and bring them home to Him.

 

[Ingledsva]

I agree there is no reason to torture or murder innocent babies so God would not do so, but He may very well have had reason to end their physical life and bring them home to Him.

It says he did do so. It says he did so in ways that are torture.

Why would he torture these infants?


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[InChrist]

And you don't even have any proof of this god even existing, - yet you will make excuses for the illogical and immoral things the Bible says he did.

*

I have enough proof for myself to believe that God exists. I believe He is the source of all right morality to begin with and He alone is completely trustworthy, loving, just and does all things with good reason.
But if God is non-existent in your view why go on and on about all the immoral things you say He does?

 

[InChrist]

It says he did do so. It says he did so in ways that are torture.

Why would he torture these infants?


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How does it say they were tortured?

 

[Ingledsva]

How does it say they were tortured?

How do you think the babies were killed? A feather?

For instance -

The babies in the flood would have had horrific exploding pain in their lungs as they tried to breath.

Torture-murder of the innocent.

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[Ingledsva]

I have enough proof for myself to believe that God exists. I believe He is the source of all right morality to begin with and He alone is completely trustworthy, loving, just and does all things with good reason.
But if God is non-existent in your view why go on and on about all the immoral things you say He does?

Your Bible says he does these things.

We discuss them To show the illogical in the "God" you worship.

We discuss them because you folks try to push religious laws - supposedly from this God - on us!

He obviously isn't loving in the texts we have been discussing.

Murdering the innocent for the supposed crimes of others - is not loving.

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[Shadow Wolf]

Murdering the innocent for the supposed crimes of others - is not loving.

And there is still the question of why God did not prevent sin from spreading? Why did he let is spread if he knew it cause such destruction and suffering?

 

[Desert Snake]

And you don't even have any proof of this god even existing, - yet you will make excuses for the illogical and immoral things the Bible says he did.

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And this is the Deity, that you claim Christians should be worshipping?

 

[viole]

I would not believe you or anyone who says God told them to kill anyone, outside the accounts for Israel alone, for a specific time alone. Israel was established for a specific purpose and the accounts where God commanded them to cleanse the land militarily of idolatry and wickedness was for a specific reason at that specific point in history. There is no other command or example of God instructing this type of action to anyone else.

What is more likely: that some tribe in the Middle East made up a God who chose them and approved those massacres, or that the creator of the cosmos chose a tribe in the Middle East and ordered those atrocities?

Just reading the history of humanity in general should provide the easy answer.

Ciao

- viole

 

[InChrist]

What is more likely: that some tribe in the Middle East made up a God who chose them and approved those massacres, or that the creator of the cosmos chose a tribe in the Middle East and ordered those atrocities?

Just reading the history of humanity in general should provide the easy answer.

Ciao

- viole

I believe in a Creator who interacts with humanity with eternity in mind.

 

[InChrist]

Your Bible says he does these things.

We discuss them To show the illogical in the "God" you worship.

We discuss them because you folks try to push religious laws - supposedly from this God - on us!

He obviously isn't loving in the texts we have been discussing.

Murdering the innocent for the supposed crimes of others - is not loving.

*

Have you heard the expression..."playing God" used of human beings who take life or try to manipulate the life others? The fact is that if a person takes the life of another for any reason besides self defense it is murder. This very expression used so by people reveals that there is an awareness of God's unique position of the One who created life and He alone has the right to sustain or end it. So murder is an act that cannot be attributed to or done by God. Personally, I think God is very loving and extends mercy beyond measure while patiently waiting and allowing abundant time for every person to turn from sin and death to eternal life.

 

[InChrist]

And there is still the question of why God did not prevent sin from spreading? Why did he let is spread if he knew it cause such destruction and suffering?

That question is answered in the scriptures many times over. God allowed sin so that many thousands upon thousands would be able to see, turn, be freed and changed and live for eternity. Had He stopped sin from spreading or quenched it from the beginning not a single person would have a life in this world or never have the opportunity to live for eternity.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That question is answered in the scriptures many times over. God allowed sin so that many thousands upon thousands would be able to see, turn, be freed and changed and live for eternity. Had He stopped sin from spreading or quenched it from the beginning not a single person would have a life in this world or never have the opportunity to live for eternity.

How would not a single person have a life?
And how could they not live for eternity in Heaven when it is sin that prevents people from getting that?
If a parent wants their child to succeed, they don't throw a bunch of distractions in the child's way and tell them best of luck.

 

[Ingledsva]

And this is the Deity, that you claim Christians should be worshipping?

You are getting things backward.

I have always maintained that the illogical things, - like murder of the innocent infants, supposed murder off whole earth population, psycho need to punish, need to be worshiped to the point of torture in hell if you don't, Allowing rape, slaves, murder, etc., SHOWS that this is the work of MEN whom want to do these things, - and not from any God.

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[Ingledsva]

Have you heard the expression..."playing God" used of human beings who take life or try to manipulate the life others? The fact is that if a person takes the life of another for any reason besides self defense it is murder. This very expression used so by people reveals that there is an awareness of God's unique position of the One who created life and He alone has the right to sustain or end it. So murder is an act that cannot be attributed to or done by God. Personally, I think God is very loving and extends mercy beyond measure while patiently waiting and allowing abundant time for every person to turn from sin and death to eternal life.

This illogical bull in the Bible is what shows me that the Bible is written by MEN with vivid imaginations, whom want to murder, rape, hold slaves, etc. - and not by any God.

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