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I believe Satan has brain washed most Christians/people.

Johnlove

Active Member
Hi John,

The true gospel was still intact since Paul's time (before and after). I don't think Satan brainwashed Christians like the Reformers to see the truth, it's the other way around. The truth is they (Reformers) have seen the truth of the gospel about salvation and the practices that is not in accordance with the Scriptures done by Roman Catholicism.

How could Satan brainwash the Christians if they followed the commandment of God (below) that you shall not make for yourself an idol?

Exodus 20:4-5
4. "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5. "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,


Another example here is there is no purgatory as means for remission of our souls. The Scripture is still the standard and not the made-made doctrines.
26. The pope does well when he grants remission to souls [in purgatory], not by the power of the keys (which he does not possess), but by way of intercession.
27. They preach man who say that so soon as the penny jingles into the money-box, the soul flies out [of purgatory].
28. It is certain that when the penny jingles into the money-box, gain and avarice can be increased, but the result of the intercession of the Church is in the power of God alone. (from 95 theses)


Thanks
There is no church that is teaching what the apostles taught. Anyway none that I know of. Paul in scripture tells us that anyone who teaches a different gospel then what has been taught by the apostles is condemned.

(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”


(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s”

(Galatians 1:7-8) “Not that there can be more than one Good News; it is merely that some troublemakers among you want to change the Good News of Christ; and let me warn you that if anyone preaches a version of the Good News different from the one you have already heard, he is to be condemned.”
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
There is no church that is teaching what the apostles taught. Anyway none that I know of. Paul in scripture tells us that anyone who teaches a different gospel then what has been taught by the apostles is condemned.
Operative term here: "none that I know of." The RCC, EO, Anglican, and ELCA are within the Apostolic tradition.
 

Johnlove

Active Member
Operative term here: "none that I know of." The RCC, EO, Anglican, and ELCA are within the Apostolic tradition.
Read the scripture quoted by me. No Church teaches what is said by the apostles in those scriptures. In fact they teach a different gospel.


By the way I know what the Catholic Church teaches, and it is not what Jesus taught, nor what the apostles taught.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Read the scripture quoted by me. No Church teaches what is said by the apostles in those scriptures. In fact they teach a different gospel.


By the way I know what the Catholic Church teaches, and it is not what Jesus taught, nor what the apostles taught.
[Ahem] The Catholic Church wrote what the apostles "taught."
Reread your bible, then recheck your sources.
 

Johnlove

Active Member
[Ahem] The Catholic Church wrote what the apostles "taught."
Reread your bible, then recheck your sources.
No the Roman Catholic Church did not write the bible. Constantine the Great commissioned the church to assemble the writings that were to be put into the bible. The Holy Spirit determined which writings went into the bible.

The Roman Catholic Church stopped following the teaching of Jesus when it allowed people to fight in Constantine’s army.

John in the bible tells people that a child of God can’t sin. The Roman Catholic Church does not teach that, and that alone says it is condemned.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s”
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No the Roman Catholic Church did not write the bible. Constantine the Great commissioned the church to assemble the writings that were to be put into the bible. The Holy Spirit determined which writings went into the bible.

The Roman Catholic Church stopped following the teaching of Jesus when it allowed people to fight in Constantine’s army.

John in the bible tells people that a child of God can’t sin. The Roman Catholic Church does not teach that, and that alone says it is condemned.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s”
That's not what I said. You need to be very careful about what you're reading. I didn't say, "The Roman Catholic Church."

Paul in the bible says that "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Rom 3:23) So now whaddo ya do? The bible makes it clear that only Jesus was without sin. Therefore, I can only conclude that you're misrepresenting the meaning of that text, just as you've misrepresented its author.
 

Johnlove

Active Member
That's not what I said. You need to be very careful about what you're reading. I didn't say, "The Roman Catholic Church."

Paul in the bible says that "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Rom 3:23) So now whaddo ya do? The bible makes it clear that only Jesus was without sin. Therefore, I can only conclude that you're misrepresenting the meaning of that text, just as you've misrepresented its author.
Yes we all have sinned. Do you truly believe your understanding of the scripture you quoted makes what John said wrong?

A Christian is baptized and is then forgiven of all his or her sin. A Spiritual Christian has allowed God to direct his or her life, and is given the grace to always obey God. Sinning is not obeying God.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s”

Notice John says one begotten by God can’t sin. You notice that one who sins is of the devil?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Yes we all have sinned. Do you truly believe your understanding of the scripture you quoted makes what John said wrong?

A Christian is baptized and is then forgiven of all his or her sin. A Spiritual Christian has allowed God to direct his or her life, and is given the grace to always obey God. Sinning is not obeying God.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s”

Notice John says one begotten by God can’t sin. You notice that one who sins is of the devil?
Christians who are baptized have their sin washed away, and then they go on sinning. Baptism magically changes nothing, except to assure us that our sin is forgiven.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Pagans had a trinity and worshiped a "mother and child". They had a holiday around December 25 and a holiday around Easter. They decorated trees in the winter and eggs in the spring.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Pagans had a trinity and worshiped a "mother and child". They had a holiday around December 25 and a holiday around Easter. They decorated trees in the winter and eggs in the spring.
What's your point? That Christians adopted pagan holidays and gave them new meaning? Not exactly a secret, and not highly dismissive of the authenticity of Christianity. In fact it only serves to authenticate the universal nature of Christianity.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Actually the Bible says that people who are baptized receive the Holy Spirit. They are not promised that they will not sin afterward.
Yeah, and Jesus also said to go and sin no more (John 8:11). Still it is a given people will continue to sin, but Jesus also covered that (Matthew 7:1-3), and it seems that the louder someone preaches the faster they violate those simple commandments.
Or, have we all been brainwashed to believe that Satan has brainwashed us ?.
Satan is the best friend the church has, after all.
 

kerndog

Member
All of Christendom has been corrupted by Satan via paganism being incorporated with Christianity.
Exactly, catholics concocted a lot of their doctrines from being infatuated and cozy with Greek philosophers, Philo, plato, ect. And if that was not enough, they got so desperate for pagan converts, they ALLOWED them to mix it with christianity, all the reformation did was,drop the mary worship and a few other insignificant things, and continue dragging the same crap around the catholics THOUGHT up !
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Exactly, catholics concocted a lot of their doctrines from being infatuated and cozy with Greek philosophers, Philo, plato, ect. And if that was not enough, they got so desperate for pagan converts, they ALLOWED them to mix it with christianity, all the reformation did was,drop the mary worship and a few other insignificant things, and continue dragging the same crap around the catholics THOUGHT up !
What a load of crap! The bible is full of Platonic thought. In fact, the earliest writings in the NT are based on it! And this was long before the Catholics were identifiable as a separate group.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Read the scripture quoted by me. No Church teaches what is said by the apostles in those scriptures. In fact they teach a different gospel.


By the way I know what the Catholic Church teaches, and it is not what Jesus taught, nor what the apostles taught.


Interestingly - a lot of what the Catholic Church teaches is closer to Tanakh, - instead of what much later "Christian" groups taught and teach.

It appears that over the years - the Jewish Jesus - was changed into a different person.

For instance Catholics are chided for asking Mary or saints for intercession with God. However, the Hebrew did ask their dead relatives, and famous dead people, to intercede with God.

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Confession and forgiveness of sins? - Joh 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

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Call no man Father? - Jdg 17:10 And Micah said unto him, Dwell with me, and be unto me a father priest, and I will give thee ten shekels of silver by the year, and a suit of apparel, and thy victuals. So the Levite went in.

Jdg 18:19 And they said unto him, Hold thy peace, lay thine hand upon thy mouth, and go with us, and be to us a father priest: is it better for thee to be a priest unto the house of one man, or that thou be a priest unto a tribe and a family in Israel?

Ab Kohen le·'av u·le·cho·hen; A Father Priest.

*

They get chided for their gold and wealth, - however - Tanakh says to give gold, silver, fine cloth, and the best to the priests and Temple. The Temple had gold fixtures, even tables covered in gold.

Exodus 35:1-10 “This is the thing which the LORD has commanded, saying, ‘Take from among you a contribution to the LORD; whoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it as the LORD’S contribution: gold, silver, and bronze, and blue, purple and scarlet material, fine linen, goats’ hair, and rams’ skins dyed red, and porpoise skins, and acacia wood, and oil for lighting, and spices for the anointing oil, and for the fragrant incense, and onyx stones and setting stones for the ephod and for the breastpiece. And let every skillful man among you come, and make all that the LORD has commanded’”

1 Kings 6:19 He prepared the inner sanctuary within the temple to set the ark of the covenant of the Lord there. 20 The inner sanctuary was twenty cubits long, twenty wide and twenty high. He overlaid the inside with pure gold, and he also overlaid the altar of cedar. 21 Solomon covered the inside of the temple with pure gold, and he extended gold chains across the front of the inner sanctuary, which was overlaid with gold. 22 So he overlaid the whole interior with gold. He also overlaid with gold the altar that belonged to the inner sanctuary.

29 On the walls all around the temple, in both the inner and outer rooms, he carved cherubim, palm trees and open flowers. 30 He also covered the floors of both the inner and outer rooms of the temple with gold.

1Cronicles 29
2 With all my resources I have provided for the temple of my God—gold for the gold work, silver for the silver, bronze for the bronze, iron for the iron and wood for the wood, as well as onyx for the settings, turquoise, stones of various colors, and all kinds of fine stone and marble—all of these in large quantities. 3 Besides, in my devotion to the temple of my God I now give my personal treasures of gold and silver for the temple of my God, over and above everything I have provided for this holy temple: 4 three thousand talents of gold (gold of Ophir) and seven thousand talents of refined silver for the overlaying of the walls of the buildings, 5 for the gold work and the silver work, and for all the work to be done by the craftsmen. Now, who is willing to consecrate themselves to the Lord today?”

6 Then the leaders of families, the officers of the tribes of Israel, the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds, and the officials in charge of the king’s work gave willingly. 7 They gave toward the work on the temple of God five thousand talents and ten thousand daricse of gold, ten thousand talents of silver, eighteen thousand talents of bronze and a hundred thousand talentsh of iron. 8 Anyone who had precious stones gave them to the treasury of the temple of the Lord in the custody of Jehiel the Gershonite.

Read Exodus 28 -

“The craftsmen must make the ephod of finely woven linen and skillfully embroider it with gold and with blue, purple, and scarlet thread. 7 It will consist of two pieces, front and back, joined at the shoulders with two shoulder-pieces. 8 The decorative sash will be made of the same materials: finely woven linen embroidered with gold and with blue, purple, and scarlet thread.

9 “Take two onyx stones, and engrave on them the names of the tribes of Israel. 10 Six names will be on each stone, arranged in the order of the births of the original sons of Israel. 11 Engrave these names on the two stones in the same way a jeweler engraves a seal. Then mount the stones in settings of gold filigree.

22 To attach the chest piece to the ephod, make braided cords of pure gold thread. 23 Then make two gold rings and attach them to the top corners of the chestpiece. 24 Tie the two gold cords to the two rings on the chest piece.

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lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
I do not know what translation you are using but the King James version of Judges 17:10 says " a father and a priest" and Judges 18:19 says the same thing. This is different from a father priest. He could act like a father in caring for the people and also like a priest in helping them worship God. This has nothing to do with call no man father. However the Roman church does call the priest "father" which the Bible says not to do.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I do not know what translation you are using but the King James version of Judges 17:10 says " a father and a priest" and Judges 18:19 says the same thing. This is different from a father priest. He could act like a father in caring for the people and also like a priest in helping them worship God. This has nothing to do with call no man father. However the Roman church does call the priest "father" which the Bible says not to do.

You need to read this in context from one. It does not mean what you think. Taken the way you are taking it - it would mean you cannot even call your own parent -father. This was a condemnation of the corrupt priests, whom were puffed up with their own power, while again telling his followers to be servants, not masters. Note that it also says not to be called rabbi/teacher/priest.

If you take this as you are - you can't even use terms like teacher, or priest.

And what of all that polite society calling young men master? Such as Master James.

You have missed the point of the text. Read number twelve. 12 whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

This is not a condemnation of a word. It is saying do not be these things, for it is the humble that will be exalted.


8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called masters, for you have one master, the Christ. 11 He who is greatest among you shall be your servant; 12 whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. 13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in.

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lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Yes, it says you have one Father, who is in Heaven. But Catholics call all priests "father" and the Pope "holy father". They are putting these human men on the same level as the Heavenly Father. I think people can have a human father who they can call father or dad or papa or what ever but they also have a spiritual father in Heaven and they should not refer to any human on earth as being on the same level as this Heavenly Father. That is exactly eaht calling a priest or Pope "father" is doing - putting him on the same level as God.
 
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