I believe Satan has brain washed most Christians/people.

[Yoshua]

The scripture is part of the "man-made doctrines."

What does this have to do with Roman Catholicism?

Hi Sojourner,

2 Tim.3:16-17
16. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17. that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
If you don't believe in the Bible, I don't think you will believe this. The Bible is proven universally as the consistent book in the world.

What does this have to do with Roman Catholicism?

Exodus 20:4-5
4. "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5. "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

It has to do with Roman Catholicism, they have statue of Mary, and other saints. Much more in Asian countries such as Mother of perpetual help, Immaculate concepcion, Sto. Nino, black nazarene, and other so-called saints. They kissed, adore and worship them.

Thanks

 

[sojourner]

2 Tim.3:16-17
16. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17. that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
If you don't believe in the Bible, I don't think you will believe this. The Bible is proven universally as the consistent book in the world.

This simply isn't cogent to my point that the bible is part of "man-made doctrine." Of course the texts are inspired by God, but that inspiration is crafted by human hands and minds.

The bible isn't "proven universally" as "consistent." It's full of contradictions and widely different theological stances.

 

[sojourner]

It has to do with Roman Catholicism, they have statue of Mary, and other saints. Much more in Asian countries such as Mother of perpetual help, Immaculate concepcion, Sto. Nino, black nazarene, and other so-called saints. They kissed, adore and worship them.

"Statues of Mary" =/= idols. Idols have deific power in and of themselves; that is, the statue is the god. A statue of Mary is simply a 3D picture -- a reflection, if you will. And the statues aren't "worshiped." I kiss my wife's picture when I'm away. it means I love her and want to draw near her. It doesn't mean that I worship her.
This is Complete. Utter. Nonsense you've posted here.

 

[Yoshua]

This simply isn't cogent to my point that the bible is part of "man-made doctrine." Of course the texts are inspired by God, but that inspiration is crafted by human hands and minds.

The bible isn't "proven universally" as "consistent." It's full of contradictions and widely different theological stances.

Hi Sojourner,

Full of contradiction for those who don't seek to find the true meaning of the Bible. This is like crime investigation by doing forensics, gathering all evidences and studying all angles of possibility. How would you know if one did not seek to find and study the Bible?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

"Statues of Mary" =/= idols. Idols have deific power in and of themselves; that is, the statue is the god. A statue of Mary is simply a 3D picture -- a reflection, if you will. And the statues aren't "worshiped." I kiss my wife's picture when I'm away. it means I love her and want to draw near her. It doesn't mean that I worship her.
This is Complete. Utter. Nonsense you've posted here.

Lev. 26:1
1. Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.

Exo. 20:4-5
4. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

The asherah poles in the New Testament, the golden calf and any other form of idols. I'm also like you defending the idols with other people. When I mature in the word of God, I learned and discovered that this is prohibited and angered by God.

Other may say that they are not worshiping them, but why there are idols or carved image? I discovered and witnessed a lot of things relating to the miracles and signs with a graven images; a blood coming out form the statues of Mary; water coming out from the statue to provide healing; touching & wiping the idols for healing; bringing those small saints in their pockets, and even placed them in their cars.

Thanks

 

[serp777]

I believe the people who fostered the Reformation, brought a teaching from Satan, and made people believe it was from God.


Those people made people believe that it took God almost sixteen hundred years to bring people the true Gospel.


All those people did was to misunderstand Paul’s writings. The writings that are very plain and tell people that if they sin they will never go to Heaven, are discounted as if they are speaking to others, not those who believe what the Reformers said.


Yes I believe those people were brain washed by the devil.


(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”


(1 Corinthians 5:11) “What I wrote was that you should not associate with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life, or is a usurer, or idolatrous, or a slanderer, or a drunkard or is dishonest; you should not even eat a meal with people like that.”

Who are you to try and speak for God? You aren't a prohpet, you aren't Jesus, you aren't Moses, or anyone else who has a special connection to God. All you have are your baseless interpretations of an ancient book which make many inconsistent claims. The gospels were written by a variety of different people who all had different political and moral agendas.

Furthermore God created the devil and clearly needs the devil to exist so obviously this was all apart of his plan anyways--it was supoosed to turn out like this. Either way spare us the arrogance of your assertions that you know the mind of God.

 

[sojourner]

This is like crime investigation by doing forensics, gathering all evidences and studying all angles of possibility. How would you know if one did not seek to find and study the Bible?

How did people do that before the bible existed?

The asherah poles in the New Testament, the golden calf and any other form of idols. I'm also like you defending the idols with other people. When I mature in the word of God, I learned and discovered that this is prohibited and angered by God.

I guess you didn't read my post. The Catholic statues Are. Not. Deities, themselves. They are merely representations -- reflections. They have no power in and of themselves and do not possess consciousness. Therefore, They. Aren't. Idols. They're statues. It doesn't matter what material they're made of. "Stone" isn't the operative definition of what constitutes an "idol."

Other may say that they are not worshiping them, but why there are idols or carved image?

Because it doesn't matter that they're made of stone, or carved. What matters is how they are regarded -- and they're not regarded as deities.

discovered and witnessed a lot of things relating to the miracles and signs with a graven images; a blood coming out form the statues of Mary; water coming out from the statue to provide healing; touching & wiping the idols for healing; bringing those small saints in their pockets, and even placed them in their cars.

None of which constitutes them being regarded as deities. Don't you carry pictures of your loved ones with you? Why aren't those things "idols?"

 

[Jumi]

I don't know any Christians who believe that one who sins can go to heaven.

That's most of the Christians I know of, outside of the internet.

 

[Yoshua]

How did people do that before the bible existed?

Hi Sojourner,

There is a difference between the past, the present and the future. In Paul's time, the bereans were diligently
examined the Scriptures to verify what Paul said was true or not. Pharisees do the same thing by testing Christ what to answer.
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

So we have here biblical interpretation as the tool to draw the past into the present time. All possibilities of evidence will be gathered by archeologist, information from the witness, geographical check, culture, norms, and anything that can contribute to the investigative process to produce the fact.

I guess you didn't read my post. The Catholic statues Are. Not. Deities, themselves. They are merely representations -- reflections. They have no power in and of themselves and do not possess consciousness. Therefore, They. Aren't. Idols. They're statues. It doesn't matter what material they're made of. "Stone" isn't the operative definition of what constitutes an "idol."

Ok. I got your point. What makes them not idols? There is a statues of Mary, the mother of God, and a lot of variational statues especially in Asian countries.
It seems that they have no power and consciousness, but who will give them power? it's the prince of the air. I've heard a testimony of a Roman Catholic worshiper who is talking with the statues, and at the same time, the statues spoke, and gave an instruction to her to accomplish a mission.

Isa.44:9-10
9 They that fashion a graven image are all of them vanity; and the things that they delight in shall not profit; and their own witnesses see not, nor know: that they may be put to shame.
10 Who hath fashioned a god, or molten an image that is profitable for nothing?

None of which constitutes them being regarded as deities. Don't you carry pictures of your loved ones with you? Why aren't those things "idols?"

Yes, for our love ones, parents, kids, relatives, brothers....They differ when it comes to faith. We both believe in one God who is spirit, and we must worship Him in spirit and truth. That's all. Why do we need to add a picture to Mary, saints.....? They are not our loved ones, but the same human like us.

Thanks

 

[sojourner]

There is a difference between the past, the present and the future. In Paul's time, the bereans were diligently
examined the Scriptures to verify what Paul said was true or not. Pharisees do the same thing by testing Christ what to answer.
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

So we have here biblical interpretation as the tool to draw the past into the present time. All possibilities of evidence will be gathered by archeologist, information from the witness, geographical check, culture, norms, and anything that can contribute to the investigative process to produce the fact.

None of this is cogent to my question.

What makes them not idols? There is a statues of Mary, the mother of God, and a lot of variational statues especially in Asian countries.

Jeezz! Didn't you read either post??? How many times do I have to say that an idol has deific power in and of itself -- IOW, the idol, itself, is a god. Statues of Mary don't have any power of themselves. They aren't seen as gods. They're seen as representations. Get it?

It seems that they have no power and consciousness, but who will give them power? it's the prince of the air. I've heard a testimony of a Roman Catholic worshiper who is talking with the statues, and at the same time, the statues spoke, and gave an instruction to her to accomplish a mission.

Personal delusion notwithstanding. The Catholic church isn't about the whims of an individual, it's about the sense of the community.

.They differ when it comes to faith.

No it doesn't.

We both believe in one God who is spirit, and we must worship Him in spirit and truth. That's all. Why do we need to add a picture to Mary, saints.....? They are not our loved ones, but the same human like us.

They're not??? I love them.

 

[Yoshua]

Jeezz! Didn't you read either post??? How many times do I have to say that an idol has deific power in and of itself -- IOW, the idol, itself, is a god. Statues of Mary don't have any power of themselves. They aren't seen as gods. They're seen as representations. Get it?

Sojourner,

Statues of Mary don't have any power of themselves. The statue itself has no power, but the enemy used the statue to deceive many.

Thanks

 

[Muffled]

That's most of the Christians I know of, outside of the internet.

I believe my pastor believes that and that he will go to heaven but why he would want to is a mystery to me. I like it here even if at times I must bear my cross.

 

[Muffled]

Everyone "continues to sin." Everyone. It's part of the human condition to exercise free will. That's why the church has Confession as a sacrament.

I believe I have exercised my free will by giving my will to Jesus. I believe confession is available because not every Christian has given himself totally to Jesus. It is enough that people have chosen Jesus over sin.

 

[sojourner]

I believe I have exercised my free will by giving my will to Jesus. I believe confession is available because not every Christian has given himself totally to Jesus. It is enough that people have chosen Jesus over sin.

I's not enough for you to have done that. We are inextricably interconnected. Therefore, it's humanity's cleanliness that's at stake -- not just your own. And your own cleanliness is affected that of others.

 

[Jumi]

I believe my pastor believes that and that he will go to heaven but why he would want to is a mystery to me. I like it here even if at times I must bear my cross.

True. I find this is an interesting point even though I'm not a believer. The Christianity that was always around me(before the internet) believes it doesn't matter what you do, even if you are the most evil man in history if you are saved then you go to heaven when you die. Yes, like you said, would the "sinner" want to go to somewhere without his "sin"?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I believe I was like that myself before receiving Jesus. My mother was mystified that I as a good person needed to do that.
Mat. 7:26 And every one that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand:
27 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and smote upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall thereof.

My house can be smitten by the powers that be - that's fine. I am one who understand that in the grand scheme of things it matters naught.

 

[Muffled]

My house can be smitten by the powers that be - that's fine. I am one who understand that in the grand scheme of things it matters naught.

I believe that is one of the problems of having been in Heaven; one gets used to things always being the way one wants them but on earth things off go awry. One gets frustrated if one builds a house and it burns down. It is true that in the grand scheme it doesn't matter but I live in the now when it does matter. So what does Jesus say? He says pray that it will be on earth as it is in Heaven.

 

[Muffled]

True. I find this is an interesting point even though I'm not a believer. The Christianity that was always around me(before the internet) believes it doesn't matter what you do, even if you are the most evil man in history if you are saved then you go to heaven when you die. Yes, like you said, would the "sinner" want to go to somewhere without his "sin"?

I beleive on e must recognize that after salvation that most evil man no longer exists and I am all for that. So the most evil man would not want to go to Heaven but the saved man would if that is what the church taught him. I beleive if I had to spend a protracted time out of the body I would rather spend the time in Heaven than just sticking around the earth.

 

[Muffled]

I's not enough for you to have done that. We are inextricably interconnected. Therefore, it's humanity's cleanliness that's at stake -- not just your own. And your own cleanliness is affected that of others.

I believe I am not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that Jesus does not accept those who accept Him as Lord and Savior? Or are you saying that sin still affects people so confession makes that better? I believe when someone sins against me that I should bear that sin as Jesus did on the cross. It is the price we pay for living in a sinful world.

 

[sojourner]

I believe I am not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that Jesus does not accept those who accept Him as Lord and Savior? Or are you saying that sin still affects people so confession makes that better? I believe when someone sins against me that I should bear that sin as Jesus did on the cross. It is the price we pay for living in a sinful world.

No, what I'm saying is that salvation and "turning from sin" isn't just an individual paradigm, because we are all interconnected. It's the soul of humanity that's at stake -- not just your soul. Or my soul. And that one person's sin affects all. In that regard, one person's purity also affects all.