I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things

[joelr]

I see no contradictions. God allows evil to happen because God gave man free will to choose, so some people choose to do good and some people choose to do evil.

Evil is 100% the fault of humans who choose to do evil because they do not obey the laws of God. It is as simple as that. There would be no child abuse or rape or murder or any other evil if everyone followed the laws of God.

There would still be all those crimes. Mental illness doesn't just go away because everyone follows the laws of their God. Actually some religions allow war and discriminatory behavior over gay people and women. As well as other religions.
Mentally ill people could still abuse people in various ways. Cancer and disease can still inflict people of all ages, even children.

If you want people to be compelled to follow laws from a God maybe that God should show up in a manner beyond the same way false gods show up and with exactly the same evidence as false gods show up and with exactly the same writings and proof that fake gods use? Maybe that would be a start. It's always people's fault? Yet God and Roswell ALiens are on equal footing for evidence?

ISIS are following the laws of the Quran as they interpret it. Not how you interpret it. People are free to interpret written rules. It's says bring the fight to Christians in Repentance in the Quran.
Maybe when people stop believing in Gods we can stick to mans laws, they are pretty clear. Or just keep having radical sects forever?

 

[muhammad_isa]

The future is determined by laws of probabilities.
You can make choices that will impact some future events. But there are also billions of other events, some microscopic, some neurons firing in your brain, in other brains, that can make different futures. An electron firing in a tube in a traffic light could cause a traffic accident, there are billions of variables. You have a probabilistic future but you can never be certain or always know the future.

Here, you are saying that the future is determined by a range of different things .. that it is "probabilistic".
You therefore conclude that it is indeterminate .. in a philosophical sense.

I am not claiming otherwise. I do not think that you or I can know what will happen in the future, and agree that it is determined by all those things.

A deity may know all possible probabilities, maybe a deity sees every possible alternate world play out at once?

No .. that is not what I believe.
I believe that our perception of "it has not happened yet" is only our perception .. and not the only possible perception.
G-d does not evaluate all possibilities .. He knows because in His perception, we have already made our choices.
i.e. everything is determined in the way that you describe

Everything is not determined by a set script .. the apparent "set script" is what is actually going to be determined in the way that you describe, but you don't perceive it.

It is all about the nature of 'time' and how we perceive it.

 

[joelr]

No .. that is not what I believe.
I believe that our perception of "it has not happened yet" is only our perception .. and not the only possible perception.
G-d does not evaluate all possibilities .. He knows because in His perception, we have already made our choices.
i.e. everything is determined in the way that you describe

Everything is not determined by a set script .. the apparent "set script" is what is actually going to be determined in the way that you describe, but you don't perceive it.

It is all about the nature of 'time' and how we perceive it.

A God outside of time were debates and theology Aquinas worked on in the Middle Ages. He was borrowing Greek Platonic concepts and putting them on the God of the day - Yahweh. Islamic theologians also have similar work.
It's all a big thought exercise. First some evidence of a theistic God is needed. There is an X Man who knows the future as well. Also fiction.

 

[Sheldon]

I won't be the one who has the house of cards tumbling down on me if I am wrong.
Think about it.

Of course you will, think about it. The flaws in Pascal's wager are of course that it assumes risk, and without any objective evidence, but worse it assumes all the risk is with disbelief, since you disbelieve in all the deities I disbelieve in, except one, what are the odds you've arbitrarily picked the right one anyway? As you say you don't know, just believe.

 

[Sheldon]

Everything is not determined by a set script

You set it was "set in stone", which means it is fixed and unchangeable?

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course you will, think about it. The flaws in Pascal's wager are of course that it assumes risk, and without any objective evidence, but worse it assumes all the risk is with disbelief, since you disbelieve in all the deities I disbelieve in, except one, what are the odds you've arbitrarily picked the right one anyway? As you say you don't know, just believe.

If there was more than one deity and I believed in the wrong deity then I could be in trouble, but if there is any deity or deities and the atheist did not believe in any deity or deities he would be in the same amount of trouble.

I believe there is only one deity, the deity that was revealed by all the Messengers of that deity.
That is the deity I believe in. I do not believe there is any objective evidence because the deity choose not to provide such objective evidence and an omnipotent deity only does what He chooses to do.

 

[joelr]

If there was more than one deity and I believed in the wrong deity then I could be in trouble, but if there is any deity or deities and the atheist did not believe in any deity or deities he would be in the same amount of trouble.

I believe there is only one deity, the deity that was revealed by all the Messengers of that deity.
That is the deity I believe in. I do not believe there is any objective evidence because the deity choose not to provide such objective evidence and an omnipotent deity only does what He chooses to do.

That sounds like an excuse for not providing evidence?


The Messiah: meet the Australian man who says he's Jesus and his followers | 7NEWS Spotlight

Here are some of the more famous incidents of people claiming to be getting Jewish messiah messages, Babs is just one of many.

• Jesus of Nazareth (c. 4 BC – 30/33 AD), leader of a "marginal Jewish apocalyptic cult"[4][5][6][7] who was crucified by the Roman Empire for sedition and is believed by Christians to have been resurrected.[8] Jews who believed him to be the Messiah were originally called Nazarenes and later they were known as Jewish Christians (the first Christians).[9] Baháʼís,[10][11] Muslims,[12][13] and Christians[14] (including Messianic Jews[15]) believe him to be the Messiah.
• Dositheos the Samaritan (mid 1st century), Origen wrote that Dositheos wished to persuade the Samaritans that he was the Jewish messiah who was prophesied by Moses, and classes him with John the Baptist, Theodas, and Judas of Galilee as people whom the Jews mistakenly held to be the Christ (Hom. xxv in Lucam; Contra Celsum, I, lvii).[16][17]
• Simon bar Kokhba, born Simon ben Koseva, (d. 135 AD) who lead the apical Bar Kokhba revolt against the Roman Empire. For three years, bar Kokhba ruled as the nasi, or prince, of a semi-independent secessionist state in Israel. Some rabbinical scholars, including the great sage Akiva, proclaimed bar Kokhba as the messiah. He died during the rebels' last stand at the fortress of Betar, after which the rebellion was brutally crushed and the land was left largely decimated, cementing both the slowly growing Jewish diaspora and the schism between Christianity and Judaism.
• Shlomo Molcho, born Diogo Pires (1500-1532) in Lisbon to Jewish converts to Christianity. After meeting David Reuveni, he left his post as secretary to the king's council, traveled to Damascus, Safed, Jerusalem and later Solonika, where he studied kabbalah and became a mystic. He was eventually reunited with Reuveni, declared his aspirations as messiah, and was finally burned at the stake by the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V, for refusing to convert back to Christianity.[18] [19]
• Sabbatai Zevi (alternative spellings: Shabbetai, Sabbetai, Shabbesai; Zvi, Tzvi) (b. at Smyrna 1626;[20] d. at Dulcigno (present day Ulcinj) 1676), a Sephardic ordained rabbi from Smyrna (now İzmir, Turkey), who was active throughout the Ottoman Empire and claimed to be the long-awaited Messiah. He was the founder of the Sabbatean movement, whose followers subsequently were to be known as Dönmeh "converts" or crypto-Jews.[21] One of the most important messianic movements, and whose influence was widespread throughout Jewry. His influence is felt even today. After his death, Sabbatai was followed by a line of putative followers who declared themselves Messiahs and are sometimes grouped as the "Sabbethaian Messiahs".[22]

 

[joelr]

If there was more than one deity and I believed in the wrong deity then I could be in trouble, but if there is any deity or deities and the atheist did not believe in any deity or deities he would be in the same amount of trouble.

I believe there is only one deity, the deity that was revealed by all the Messengers of that deity.
That is the deity I believe in. I do not believe there is any objective evidence because the deity choose not to provide such objective evidence and an omnipotent deity only does what He chooses to do.

Christian messiah claimants

• Ann Lee (1736–1784), a central figure to the Shakers,[24] who thought she "embodied all the perfections of God" in female form and considered herself to be Christ's female counterpart in 1772.[25]
• John Nichols Thom (1799–1838), who had achieved fame and followers as Sir William Courtenay and adopted the claim of Messiah after a period in a mental institute.[26]
• Abd-ru-shin (Oskar Ernst Bernhardt, 18 April 1875 – 6 December 1941), founder of the Grail Movement.[27]
• Lou de Palingboer (Louwrens Voorthuijzen)[27] (1898-1968), a Dutch charismatic leader who claimed to be God as well as the Messiah from 1950 until his death in 1968.
• Father Divine (George Baker) (c. 1880 –1965), an African American spiritual leader from about 1907 until his death who claimed to be God.
• André Matsoua (1899–1942), Congolese founder of Amicale, proponents of which subsequently adopted him as Messiah in the late 1920s.
• Samael Aun Weor (1917–1977), born Víctor Manuel Gómez Rodríguez, Colombian citizen and later Mexican, was an author, lecturer and founder of the 'Universal Christian Gnostic Movement', according to him, 'the most powerful movement ever founded'. By 1972, he referenced that his death and resurrection would be occurring before 1978.[28]
• Ahn Sahng-hong (1918–1985), founder of the World Mission Society Church of God and worshiped by the members as the messiah.[29]
• Sun Myung Moon (1920–2012), founder and leader of the Unification Church established in Seoul, South Korea, who considered himself the Second Coming of Christ, but not Jesus himself.[30] Although it is generally believed by Unification Church members ("Moonies") that he was the Messiah and the Second Coming of Christ and was anointed to fulfill Jesus' unfinished mission.[30]
• Yahweh ben Yahweh (1935–2007), born as Hulon Mitchell, Jr., a black nationalist and separatist who created the Nation of Yahweh and allegedly orchestrated the murder of dozens of people.
• Laszlo Toth (1940–2012) claimed he was Jesus Christ as he battered Michelangelo's Pieta with a geologist hammer.
• Wayne Bent (born 1941), also known as Michael Travesser of the Lord Our Righteousness Church, also known as the "Strong City Cult", convicted December 15, 2008 of one count of criminal sexual contact of a minor and two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor in 2008.[31]
• Iesu Matayoshi (1944-2018), in 1997 he established the World Economic Community Party based on his conviction that he was God and the Christ.
• Jung Myung Seok (born 1945), a South Korean who was a member of the Unification Church in the 1970s, before breaking off to found the dissenting group[32] now known as Providence Church in 1980.[33][34] He also considers himself the Second Coming of Christ, but not Jesus himself in 1980.[35] He believes he has come to finish the incomplete message and mission of Jesus Christ, asserting that he is the Messiah and has the responsibility to save all mankind.[36] He claims that the Christian doctrine of resurrection is false but that people can be saved through him.[37]
• Claude Vorilhon now known as Raël "messenger of the Elohim" (born 1946), a French professional test driver and former car journalist became founder and leader of UFO religion the Raël Movement in 1972, which teaches that life on Earth was scientifically created by a species of extraterrestrials, which they call Elohim. He claimed he met an extraterrestrial humanoid in 1973 and became the Messiah.[38] Then devoted himself to the task he said was given by his "biological father", an extraterrestrial named Yahweh.[39]
• José Luis de Jesús (1946–2013), founder and leader of Creciendo en Gracia sect (Growing In Grace International Ministry, Inc.), based in Miami, Florida. He claimed to be both Jesus Christ returned and the Antichrist, and exhibited a "666" tattoo on his forearm. He has referred to himself as Jesucristo Hombre, which translates to "Jesus Christ made Man".

 

[joelr]

If there was more than one deity and I believed in the wrong deity then I could be in trouble, but if there is any deity or deities and the atheist did not believe in any deity or deities he would be in the same amount of trouble.

I believe there is only one deity, the deity that was revealed by all the Messengers of that deity.
That is the deity I believe in. I do not believe there is any objective evidence because the deity choose not to provide such objective evidence and an omnipotent deity only does what He chooses to do.

• Inri Cristo (born 1948) of Indaial, Brazil, a claimant to be the second Jesus.[40]
• Apollo Quiboloy (born 1950), founder and leader of the Kingdom of Jesus Christ religious group, who claims that Jesus Christ is the "Almighty Father," that Quiboloy is "His Appointed Son," and that salvation is now completed. Proclaims himself as the "Appointed Son of the God" not direct to the point as the "Begotten Son of the God" in 1985.[41]
• Brian David Mitchell was born on October 18, 1953, in Salt Lake City, Utah, he believed himself the fore-ordained angel born on earth to be the Davidic "servant" prepared by God as a type of Messiah who would restore the divinely led kingdom of Israel to the world in preparation for Christ's second coming. (Mitchell's belief in such an end-times figure – also known among many fundamentalist Latter Day Saints as "the One Mighty and Strong" – appeared to be based in part on a reading of the biblical Book of Isaiah by the independent LDS Hebraist, Avraham Gileadi, with whom Mitchell became familiar as a result of his previous participation in Stirling Allan's American Study Group.)[42][43]
• David Koresh (Vernon Wayne Howell) (1959–1993), leader of the Branch Davidians, renaming himself in honor of King David and Cyrus the Great. He and his followers were killed after a botched ATF raid and siege which ended with their compound catching fire when the FBI pumped CS gas into the building.
• Maria Devi Christos (born 1960), leader of the Great White Brotherhood popular in the former Soviet Union.
• Sergey Torop (born 1961), who started to call himself "Vissarion", founder of the Church of the Last Testament and the spiritual community Ecopolis Tiberkul in Southern Siberia.
• Alan John Miller (born 1962), founder of Divine Truth, a new religious movement based in Australia. Alan John Miller, also known as A.J., who claims to be Jesus of Nazareth through reincarnation. Miller was formerly an elder in the Jehovah's Witnesses.
• Islamic tradition has a prophecy of the Mahdi, who will come alongside the return of Isa (Jesus).
  
  
  • Muhammad Jaunpuri (1443–1505), who traveled Northeastern India; he influenced the Mahdavia and the Zikris.
  • Báb (1819–1850), who declared himself to be the promised Mahdi in Shiraz, Persia, in 1844. (Related to Baháʼí claims—see the Christian Messiah Claimants section above—Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nuri, also known as Baháʼu'lláh.)
  • Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nuri, Baháʼu'lláh (1817–1892), born Shiite, adopting Bábism in 1844 (see "Bab" in Muslim messiah claimants section below). In 1863, he claimed to be the promised one of all religions, and founded the Baháʼí Faith.[44]
  • Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, India (1835–1908), proclaimed himself to be both the expected Mahdi and Messiah,[45][46] being the only person in Islamic history who claimed to be both. Crucially, however, he claimed that Jesus had died a natural death after surviving crucifixion,[45] and that prophecies concerning his future advent referred to the Mahdi himself bearing the qualities and character of Jesus rather than to his physical return alongside the Mahdi. He founded the Ahmadiyya Movement in 1889 envisioning it to be the rejuvenation of Islam. Adherents of the Ahmadiyya movement claim to be strictly Muslim, but are widely viewed by other Muslim groups as either disbelievers or heretics.[47][48]
  • Muhammad Ahmad ("The Mad Mahdi") (1844–1885), who declared himself the Mahdi in 1881, defeated the Ottoman Egyptian authority, and founded the Mahdist Sudan.
  • Sayyid Mohammed Abdullah Hassan (1864–1920), who led the Dervish State in present-day Somalia in a two-decade long resistance movement against the Ethiopian, British, and Italian Empires between 1900 and 1920.
  • Juhayman al-Otaybi (1936–1980), who seized the Grand Mosque in Mecca in November 1979 and declared his brother-in-law the Mahdi.
  • Hasan Mezarcı (11 May 1954), conservative Islamist politician and member of the Grand National Assembly of Turkey (1991-1995) who was expelled from the Welfare Party and imprisoned for his extreme view against secularism. He claimed to be Isa himself after his imprisonment.
  • Adnan Oktar (2 February 1956), an Islamic creationist cult leader, active in Turkey since 1979. He believes himself to be the Islamic Messiah and focuses his brand of Islam on close reading of the Quran, with dramatic presentations similar to Christian televangelism, and is the author of The Atlas of Creation.
  • Zoroastrian Messiah claimants[edit]
    • Bahram Chobin, after he usurped the throne of the Sassanian Empire, declared himself to be the Messiah in the midst of the eschatalogical times of the late 6th century AD[49]
    Other or combination messiah claimants
    Haile Selassie
    
    

 

[Sheldon]

If there was more than one deity and I believed in the wrong deity then I could be in trouble,

Well even if there is only one, the house of cards could come tumbling down on you, as you put it, if you don't get your pick right. Whereas you implied only atheists took any risk. HERE:

I won't be the one who has the house of cards tumbling down on me if I am wrong.
Think about it.

I believe there is only one deity, the deity that was revealed by all the Messengers of that deity.

Yes I know this, it doesn't alter the fact that your claim that "I won't be the one who has the house of cards tumbling down on me if I am wrong." Is demonstrably incorrect, if you're wrong how will you be in any less trouble than an atheist from a theistic perspective, which of course is what you were offering?

My perspective does not involve any belief in any deity or deities, so I don't see any risk, but yours does perceive a risk, and if you get your choice wrong then from your perspective that must involve risk, this is not to say you believe you have picked the wrong deity, which is another matter.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes I know this, it doesn't alter the fact that your claim that "I won't be the one who has the house of cards tumbling down on me if I am wrong." Is demonstrably incorrect, if you're wrong how will you be in any less trouble than an atheist from a theistic perspective, which of course is what you were offering?

The claim that "all" messengers of the deity revealed that deity? That is mostly a Baha'i belief. And, as we all know, they have to make "adjustments" to the beliefs of the other religions to make them fit into the Baha'i beliefs. And they stack a lot of cards on that assumption. Of course, because the Baha'i Faith says it, they don't believe it is an assumption... but the truth.

As we deal out the Baha'i cards... Krishna isn't an incarnation, but a manifestation. And he didn't teach reincarnation. Buddha taught about the one true God. Jesus died and stayed dead and didn't resurrect physically. All the prophecies in all the major religions were fulfilled by the Bab and Baha'u'llah. But the cards holding all this up is that their description and definition of God is the true one. And that all messengers/manifestations were sent by this one God, and Baha'u'llah is the latest one. All things they can't prove objectively and must just "believe" that they are true. If these bottom cards get pulled out, the whole thing falls, But, if one of the cards at the top falls down, it too could knock down the whole pile.

Of course, they think their foundation is made of solid rock. But so do all the other religions. And Baha'is have no problem tearing down the foundational beliefs of the other religions. And justify it by saying that those beliefs were manmade traditions and interpretations that got added into the religion. Sure, I got no problem believing all the other religions were manmade. But those other religions are part of the Baha'i foundation too. So, they've got to be careful how much they destroy of those other religions.

For me, it's too late. They've already destroyed to much of them. I believe the Baha'is. The stories in the Scriptures of the other religions aren't literally true. But then I don't believe Baha'is when they say some things that were written as "historically" true were also not literally true... but were meant to be symbolic stories. The worst one being the resurrection story of Jesus. That's a big part of the foundation of most Christian beliefs. Jack hammered and bull dozed down to rubble. But, like I said, I believe them. Those stories weren't true. But now I'm supposed to believe the Baha'i story?

All I see is that most all new religions find ways to lay claim to The Truth... by finding ways to delegitimize the other religions. Baha'is have done that. But those religions, all crumbled and broken, are part of the foundation of the Baha'i Faith. And they stack their cards on it.

 

[CG Didymus]

There would still be all those crimes. Mental illness doesn't just go away because everyone follows the laws of their God. Actually some religions allow war and discriminatory behavior over gay people and women. As well as other religions.
Mentally ill people could still abuse people in various ways. Cancer and disease can still inflict people of all ages, even children.

If you want people to be compelled to follow laws from a God maybe that God should show up in a manner beyond the same way false gods show up and with exactly the same evidence as false gods show up and with exactly the same writings and proof that fake gods use? Maybe that would be a start. It's always people's fault? Yet God and Roswell ALiens are on equal footing for evidence?

ISIS are following the laws of the Quran as they interpret it. Not how you interpret it. People are free to interpret written rules. It's says bring the fight to Christians in Repentance in the Quran.
Maybe when people stop believing in Gods we can stick to mans laws, they are pretty clear. Or just keep having radical sects forever?

Speaking of the mentally ill... What would we do if we saw a person taking his son up a mountain to sacrifice him. And the guy says that God told him to do it?

And what if we saw an army march into a city and kill all the people and animals, including women and child. And they said that their God had commanded that they do it?

What are Baha'is going to say? That those stories weren't true? That God would never really do that? I say great, then the Bible stories about God are fictional. That people are just doing bad things to each other and are justifying it by making up stories that say that God told them to do it. Well, that's okay with me... But I wonder how much more is just made up stories... including God. Baha'i trust that God is real, just not the stories about God?

And like you say, lots of those beliefs were borrowed from other cultures. Yet, the Gods of those cultures, I'm sure, Baha'is believe are false?

 

[Trailblazer]

That sounds like an excuse for not providing evidence?

Evidence of the deity would have to come from the deity.
The deity provided Messengers as evidence.

The fact that some messengers were false does not prove all messengers were false. That is the fallacy of hasty generalization, unless and until one has actually considered all the variables.

Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.
Hasty generalization - Wikipedia

Hasty generalization usually shows this pattern:

1. messenger a was not a true messenger of God
2. messenger b was not a true messenger of God
3. messenger c was not a true messenger of God
4. messenger d was not a true messenger of God

Therefore, messenger d (in this case Baha’u’llah) was not a true messenger of God.

It is true that the world is full of men who claimed to speak for God, but logically speaking that does not mean that there were not one or more Messengers who did speak for God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes I know this, it doesn't alter the fact that your claim that "I won't be the one who has the house of cards tumbling down on me if I am wrong." Is demonstrably incorrect, if you're wrong how will you be in any less trouble than an atheist from a theistic perspective, which of course is what you were offering?

My perspective does not involve any belief in any deity or deities, so I don't see any risk, but yours does perceive a risk, and if you get your choice wrong then from your perspective that must involve risk, this is not to say you believe you have picked the wrong deity, which is another matter.

Your risk is that if there is a deity you did not perceive a deity.
My risk is if there was more than one deity and I chose the wrong deity. That same risk would apply to any theist.

There would also be a risk if there was more than one true religion and I chose only one religion and rejected all the other religions. That is the risk that Christians take, not a risk I take, since I believe that all the religions are true.

 

[Trailblazer]

Christian messiah claimants

• Ann Lee (1736–1784), a central figure to the Shakers,[24] who thought she "embodied all the perfections of God" in female form and considered herself to be Christ's female counterpart in 1772.[25]
• John Nichols Thom (1799–1838), who had achieved fame and followers as Sir William Courtenay and adopted the claim of Messiah after a period in a mental institute.[26]
• Abd-ru-shin (Oskar Ernst Bernhardt, 18 April 1875 – 6 December 1941), founder of the Grail Movement.[27]
• Lou de Palingboer (Louwrens Voorthuijzen)[27] (1898-1968), a Dutch charismatic leader who claimed to be God as well as the Messiah from 1950 until his death in 1968.
• Father Divine (George Baker) (c. 1880 –1965), an African American spiritual leader from about 1907 until his death who claimed to be God.
• André Matsoua (1899–1942), Congolese founder of Amicale, proponents of which subsequently adopted him as Messiah in the late 1920s.
• Samael Aun Weor (1917–1977), born Víctor Manuel Gómez Rodríguez, Colombian citizen and later Mexican, was an author, lecturer and founder of the 'Universal Christian Gnostic Movement', according to him, 'the most powerful movement ever founded'. By 1972, he referenced that his death and resurrection would be occurring before 1978.[28]
• Ahn Sahng-hong (1918–1985), founder of the World Mission Society Church of God and worshiped by the members as the messiah.[29]
• Sun Myung Moon (1920–2012), founder and leader of the Unification Church established in Seoul, South Korea, who considered himself the Second Coming of Christ, but not Jesus himself.[30] Although it is generally believed by Unification Church members ("Moonies") that he was the Messiah and the Second Coming of Christ and was anointed to fulfill Jesus' unfinished mission.[30]
• Yahweh ben Yahweh (1935–2007), born as Hulon Mitchell, Jr., a black nationalist and separatist who created the Nation of Yahweh and allegedly orchestrated the murder of dozens of people.
• Laszlo Toth (1940–2012) claimed he was Jesus Christ as he battered Michelangelo's Pieta with a geologist hammer.
• Wayne Bent (born 1941), also known as Michael Travesser of the Lord Our Righteousness Church, also known as the "Strong City Cult", convicted December 15, 2008 of one count of criminal sexual contact of a minor and two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor in 2008.[31]
• Iesu Matayoshi (1944-2018), in 1997 he established the World Economic Community Party based on his conviction that he was God and the Christ.
• Jung Myung Seok (born 1945), a South Korean who was a member of the Unification Church in the 1970s, before breaking off to found the dissenting group[32] now known as Providence Church in 1980.[33][34] He also considers himself the Second Coming of Christ, but not Jesus himself in 1980.[35] He believes he has come to finish the incomplete message and mission of Jesus Christ, asserting that he is the Messiah and has the responsibility to save all mankind.[36] He claims that the Christian doctrine of resurrection is false but that people can be saved through him.[37]
• Claude Vorilhon now known as Raël "messenger of the Elohim" (born 1946), a French professional test driver and former car journalist became founder and leader of UFO religion the Raël Movement in 1972, which teaches that life on Earth was scientifically created by a species of extraterrestrials, which they call Elohim. He claimed he met an extraterrestrial humanoid in 1973 and became the Messiah.[38] Then devoted himself to the task he said was given by his "biological father", an extraterrestrial named Yahweh.[39]
• José Luis de Jesús (1946–2013), founder and leader of Creciendo en Gracia sect (Growing In Grace International Ministry, Inc.), based in Miami, Florida. He claimed to be both Jesus Christ returned and the Antichrist, and exhibited a "666" tattoo on his forearm. He has referred to himself as Jesucristo Hombre, which translates to "Jesus Christ made Man".

It does not matter if there are many false messiah claimants because that does not mean there were never any true messiah claimants.
Please refer to my previous post to you regarding the fallacy of hasty generalization.

 

[John53]

It does not matter if there are many false messiah claimants because that does not mean there were never any true messiah claimants.
Please refer to my previous post to you regarding the fallacy of hasty generalization.

sheez.... Talk about a system to have you set up to fail

 

[Trailblazer]

sheez.... Talk about a system to have you set up to fail

You do not have to fail, not if you succeed in recognizing the true Messiah claimant.

 

[John53]

You do not have to fail, not if you succeed in recognizing the true Messiah claimant.

From the thousands to choose from with zero guidance from the one true to guide

 

[Trailblazer]

From the thousands to choose from with zero guidance from the one true to guide

You will get guidance from God and His Messengers if you make an effort.

“Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.””Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 266-267

 

[John53]

You will get guidance from God and His Messengers if you make an effort.

“Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.””Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 266-267

Circular reasoning. Get guidance from the messenger who you can't know is a real messenger. I'm getting dizzy from going in circles.