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I Can Not Respect A God who Allows Children to Suffer

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
Suffering is because humans are no longer in God's Kingdom ever since Adam sinned and was driven out of Eden. You'll experience suffering whenever you are not in God's Kingdom.

Through Jesus Christ we are going to make our return.

Jesus Christ's prayer:
Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Prayer works sometimes when God evaluated the case and bring in us the 'Thy kingdom come'. Yet we have to know that this is a grace/gift, but nothing a must.
 
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blackout

Violet.
You don't want him to intervene. You won't even acknowledge Him. How in the world do you expect him to protect a people that shun His very existence?

In the very same way any other "unapprciated, ignored" father would.

Every good father protects his young.
No matter how ungrateful they are.

Parents are THERE to make sure their young are fed, housed, protected and loved.
It's what parents do. Regardless.
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
Much suffering is not the "fault" of people, but rather random circumstances, or natural disasters.
True , not all suffering is the result of our own actions but we have to understand the world we live in with all it's natural disasters.
Lets go back to the beginning. God created EDEN (a Paradise) for man AS AN EXAMPLE that we should learn of God to do the same. The rest of the world was still a natural wilderness, unfinished and imperfect.
When man rejected God's command to obey him Gen.2v16,17. man was put out of Paradise to live according to our own choice which meant to decide for ourselves how we would live, behave and control the natural Elements. We needed to find out that man can not control earthquakes, storms, hurricanes, typhoons, tsunamis, wind heat etc etc.
Man has failed in everything but he is not convinced of that yet therefore worse is to come upon us Mat.24v21. :eek:
 
I consider the explanation for the problem of evil using free will to be an ignorant one, but even if it were true, many innocent people, including children and non-human animals suffer as a result of things not caused by the free will of humans.

Babies were partially crushed and suffocated in collapsed buildings in Haity recently. A God who could allow such a thing is a horrific character IMO, and one to whom I could ever show any respect, no matter the consequences.

How do you justify worshipping a God who allegedly allows this?

Though there are people who may not like this I am going to bring in the Bible.

Genesis 3
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"
10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"
12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."
13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."
16 To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."
17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."
20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living. 21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

This passage shows that man had done something they were told not to and were forced to provide for themselves.

11 So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh. 12 But the more they were oppressed, the more they multiplied and spread; so the Egyptians came to dread the Israelites 13 and worked them ruthlessly. 14 They made their lives bitter with hard labor in brick and mortar and with all kinds of work in the fields; in all their hard labor the Egyptians used them ruthlessly.
15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah, 16 "When you help the Hebrew women in childbirth and observe them on the delivery stool, if it is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live." 17 The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live. 18 Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, "Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?"
19 The midwives answered Pharaoh, "Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive."
20 So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous. 21 And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own. 22 Then Pharaoh gave this order to all his people: "Every boy that is born you must throw into the Nile, but let every girl live."

These passages from Exodus 1 show how the Pharaoh wanted to kill childern and God later helped them get out of Egypt with the help of a Hebrew. God does everything in his time not our own. We are not in control can we catch a falling building, No, God does things for reasons beyond what we may know.

Childern are the next generation and so we need to save them, yes, but even Christ loved the childern he never made any attempt to get rid of childern that followed him. Why then do people think God has something againest childern he loves them like all of us.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Though there are people who may not like this I am going to bring in the Bible.

Genesis 3
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"
10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"
12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."
13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."
16 To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."
17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."
20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living. 21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

This passage shows that man had done something they were told not to and were forced to provide for themselves.

11 So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh. 12 But the more they were oppressed, the more they multiplied and spread; so the Egyptians came to dread the Israelites 13 and worked them ruthlessly. 14 They made their lives bitter with hard labor in brick and mortar and with all kinds of work in the fields; in all their hard labor the Egyptians used them ruthlessly.
15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah, 16 "When you help the Hebrew women in childbirth and observe them on the delivery stool, if it is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live." 17 The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live. 18 Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, "Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?"
19 The midwives answered Pharaoh, "Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive."
20 So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous. 21 And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own. 22 Then Pharaoh gave this order to all his people: "Every boy that is born you must throw into the Nile, but let every girl live."

These passages from Exodus 1 show how the Pharaoh wanted to kill childern and God later helped them get out of Egypt with the help of a Hebrew. God does everything in his time not our own. We are not in control can we catch a falling building, No, God does things for reasons beyond what we may know.

Childern are the next generation and so we need to save them, yes, but even Christ loved the childern he never made any attempt to get rid of childern that followed him. Why then do people think God has something againest childern he loves them like all of us.
Yes, you have clearly shown that god allows suffering, blames us for it, and has no problems punishing the children for the sins of the parents.

GOOD JOB!
 
Yes, you have clearly shown that god allows suffering, blames us for it, and has no problems punishing the children for the sins of the parents.

GOOD JOB!

Thank you, it is nice to know that people out there understand some of my viewpoint. Just because I was able to clearly show it please feel free to question my views. I am not trying to totally stop people from debating the issue I only want to get my view out there and hope that people see that we Christians are not crazy.
Thanks again.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Did this possible change your view on God or did it just give you something to think about?
It furthers the point made in the OP.
You have shown just how god not only allows suffering, but blames us for his neglect.
You have also shown how god punishes people for things they had absolutely nothing to do with.

So you have not only further the point of the OP, you have even added more reasons to not respect god.

Good Job!
 
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Peacewise

Active Member
Since there are some who cannot respect a god that allows children to suffer, I presume that they apply that reasoning upon parents who allow their children to play contact sports and hence get injured on occasions, or likewise don't respect themselves when they've self harmed by allowing themselves a touch too much to drink and wake up with a hangover.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Since there are some who cannot respect a god that allows children to suffer, I presume that they apply that reasoning upon parents who allow their children to play contact sports and hence get injured on occasions, or likewise don't respect themselves when they've self harmed by allowing themselves a touch too much to drink and wake up with a hangover.
Fail.
 

The_Evelyonian

Old-School Member
Since there are some who cannot respect a god that allows children to suffer, I presume that they apply that reasoning upon parents who allow their children to play contact sports and hence get injured on occasions, or likewise don't respect themselves when they've self harmed by allowing themselves a touch too much to drink and wake up with a hangover.

Allowing a child to play a sport where they might possibly get hurt is one thing. A supposedly omnipotent god who allows thousands of his children to suffer and die every day and does nothing to help is an altogether different matter.
 
Since there are some who cannot respect a god that allows children to suffer, I presume that they apply that reasoning upon parents who allow their children to play contact sports and hence get injured on occasions, or likewise don't respect themselves when they've self harmed by allowing themselves a touch too much to drink and wake up with a hangover.

That is a good point but how do injuries that heal later connect with God allowing childern to suffer and die? It seems like you might be stretching the issue farther then it should be stretched.
 

Peacewise

Active Member
Hardly fail it's a reasonable analogy.
God being omnipotent could save all the children from suffering, but doesn't, is the argument for disrespecting such a god.

One Parent having absolute say over their child playing contact sport could save, but doesn't save that child from suffering due to that sport is argument for disrespecting that parent.

edit - I reject that this is a strawman argument because, God is omnipotent is equivalent to One parent having absolute say over their child is a strong analogy. The suffering itself may not necessarily be permanent or non permanent in either case, again another strong analogy, and in each case the children or the child is not saved from suffering is a strong analogy, therefore the conclusion is reasonable that a parent who did this should be disrespected if such a god is also disrespected.
 
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To bring it back to the main point God allows suffering as a way to turn people from evil towards him. It may be hard to see but even Paul one of the Apostles was stoned, shipwrecked, jailed and later killed because he would not deny his faith. Why? Even through the suffering he still was able to know and respect God.
 

The_Evelyonian

Old-School Member
Hardly fail it's a reasonable analogy.

No, it isn't. There is a massive amount of difference between a parent allowing a child to play a game where he may skin his knee and an omnipotent god who sits back and does nothing while millions of his children die from starvation and other preventable causes.
 

The_Evelyonian

Old-School Member
To bring it back to the main point God allows suffering as a way to turn people from evil towards him. It may be hard to see but even Paul one of the Apostles was stoned, shipwrecked, jailed and later killed because he would not deny his faith. Why? Even through the suffering he still was able to know and respect God.

What better way for a father to show his love than by letting his children die? :rolleyes:
 
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