McBell
Admiral Obvious
You have?
In what thread?
Oh...
I get it.
You are one of those who do not know the difference between fact and belief...?
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I Can Not Respect A God who Allows Children to Suffer
- Thread starter MSizer
- Start date
In what thread?
Oh...
I get it.
You are one of those who do not know the difference between fact and belief...?
Danmac
Well-Known Member
I wonder how many times in your life that people have suffered at your hands. Unless of course you are perfect your poor choices have been the cause of suffering for other people in the past. How do you excuse that?
So why should we show you respect since you have been the cause of suffering to others from time to time in the past?
How do you justify the times you have been the instrument that caused suffering?
Danmac
Well-Known Member
:clap
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Unless you are going to claim that Msizer is not only all knowing but also all powerful, you are comparing apples to cream cheese.
Danmac
Well-Known Member
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Oh come now.
Surely you can do better than that.
I mean, I understand that you have completely lost this debate and have been reduced to petty insults, but surely you can do better than that.
James King
New Member
The tectonic plates, which caused the earthquake, are ABSOLUTELY required for advanced life to exist on our planet. Earthquakes are caused by the movement of continental plates that float on a molten mantel. Without the mantel, the earth's Van-Allen radiation shield and the earth's magnetosphere would not exist and advanced life could not exist on the land due to deadly solar radiation. In addition, tectonic activity is required to prevent all land from being washed into the oceans through the water cycle, which is required for all life.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
What if I told you that God sends people to rescue/protect/feed/house the world's children all the time? Like every single day?
Feed The Children
Feed The Children: Your gift will help hungry children this summer
World Vision
World Vision International - Home
UNICEF
UNICEF - UNICEF Home
Mercy Corps
Be the Change | Mercy Corps
To name but a few.
I urge you to reconsider your cynical view of mankind.
skydivephil
Active Member
All of this is true assuming a naturalistic world. However a super natural being is supposedly not contrainded by any naturlaistic laws therefore the conditions you state are not neccessary if you assume the existence of a supernatural being that can intervene in human affairs.
James King
New Member
I can see where you are coming from on this point skydivephil, but the universe must operate through reliable physical laws, since it would be impossible for sentient creatures to make sense of a universe in which the physical laws were randomly applied. The Bible explicitly says that God fixed the laws that govern the universe. We live in a world goverened by the physical laws that govern the Universe, and if we look at the Universe, we can see it is chaotic. God COULD have intervened and saved the haiti victims, but if he did that EVERY time a natural disaster happened wouldn't it be pretty obvious there was some divine power at work and therefore faith would become obsolete as it would be clear that there is a God.
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skydivephil
Active Member
So lets be clear on a few things, first off your arugment assumes it is not clear that there is a god, correct? I preusme you also believe that those people that don't believe in god go to hell , even though acording to you, its not clear that there is a god. Also correct?
You also claim that sentient beings couldnt make sense of the universe if god intervened in their lives, yet god intervenes in many instances in the bible , so presumably the witnesses to these events were incable of making sense of the universe?
I also assume for those in the presence of god in the after life cannot make sense of the world around them, fair?
James King
New Member
Not at all, and I apologise if it was unclear. First of all, I am presuming that there is indeed a God. Second of all, I only believe that the people that have heard the word of Jesus and CHOOSE to reject him go to hell, everyone else who has not heard of him is judged on their moral actions. Also, I did not intend for you to think that sentiment beings wouldn't be able to make sense of a Universe where God intervenes, because he does intervene. My reasoning was that, the Universe must have structure, so that we can understand it. When you go to "the afterlife", you leave our physical dimension altogether. Heaven is in another plane of existence, beyond time and reality. Therefore, making sense of God will become something entirely different. Sorry again if I confused anyone with my previous statement or if I am now confusing anyone :sorry1:
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
...And so the Eskimo chief says: "So why did you tell me?"
Starsoul
Truth
Completely agree with the post of >>Peacewise>> couldn't have said better!
Are you, by any chance implying to limit a person's capabilities of emerging from a fall, with the rule of ' hit, fall, get up, hit again, fall again and learn a lesson' or Are you just trying to make God look bad?
Is the learning process post- having -suffered -a set back- in- life totally going out of observation here?
Do sportsmen not suffer any injuries in life, and yet do they not become astounding sportsmen? It is common observation that they do learn enough along the basic learning curve of life as to how to deal with personal, emotional and physical deficiencies. And they learn well how to cope with them and perform even better with them.
Likewise, there comes a time when a person's learning process has given him enough to straighten out his own issues and his time of continuous effort has come to an end. I do not understand how can you differentiate between pain endured by a newborn baby dying of a natural calamity, and pain induced by human torture to another human in a jail or a torture cell. Do you have respect for those humans who induce torture?
In both cases, the nature's way of giving pain seems far less painful than the one given intentionally by one human to the other. If i was to throw a bit of light on the true concept of pain, suffering and salvation, It is 'this' life which is painful, not the next one. So for those who die out of natural suffering, are going to a better world and they will be joined by their fellow companions in time.
And those who learn from their mistakes, to keep on surviving again, are given liberal chances to gain more respect and status in the eyes of God. Isnt it cruel and insensitive to not include war suffering children under one's eye of sympathy, rather than those who die with the hand of nature, because it is God who has all knowledge for those who die, as to which world is better for which person, for the time being. But war, is open murder, of inflicting painful injuries on the souls of those who witness such a sight. Parents of children who die of natural causes are better able to cope with that pain, rather than parents of those who die of murder, war, or 'leisure dying' while being high on substance and related issues.
And as for the argument of, 'God should do something about it', well He is! he is ending the suffering of those who probably would suffer more at the hands of humans in this world, and delaying the death of those who cope with themselves and stand a better chance with humanity..
Are you, by any chance implying to limit a person's capabilities of emerging from a fall, with the rule of ' hit, fall, get up, hit again, fall again and learn a lesson' or Are you just trying to make God look bad?
Is the learning process post- having -suffered -a set back- in- life totally going out of observation here?
Do sportsmen not suffer any injuries in life, and yet do they not become astounding sportsmen? It is common observation that they do learn enough along the basic learning curve of life as to how to deal with personal, emotional and physical deficiencies. And they learn well how to cope with them and perform even better with them.
Likewise, there comes a time when a person's learning process has given him enough to straighten out his own issues and his time of continuous effort has come to an end. I do not understand how can you differentiate between pain endured by a newborn baby dying of a natural calamity, and pain induced by human torture to another human in a jail or a torture cell. Do you have respect for those humans who induce torture?
In both cases, the nature's way of giving pain seems far less painful than the one given intentionally by one human to the other. If i was to throw a bit of light on the true concept of pain, suffering and salvation, It is 'this' life which is painful, not the next one. So for those who die out of natural suffering, are going to a better world and they will be joined by their fellow companions in time.
And those who learn from their mistakes, to keep on surviving again, are given liberal chances to gain more respect and status in the eyes of God. Isnt it cruel and insensitive to not include war suffering children under one's eye of sympathy, rather than those who die with the hand of nature, because it is God who has all knowledge for those who die, as to which world is better for which person, for the time being. But war, is open murder, of inflicting painful injuries on the souls of those who witness such a sight. Parents of children who die of natural causes are better able to cope with that pain, rather than parents of those who die of murder, war, or 'leisure dying' while being high on substance and related issues.
And as for the argument of, 'God should do something about it', well He is! he is ending the suffering of those who probably would suffer more at the hands of humans in this world, and delaying the death of those who cope with themselves and stand a better chance with humanity..
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There is a great chasm between allowing and causing, is it not?
It was not and NEVER been the case that God causes trouble in this world.
I ask you several questions to answer this matter.
Have you read the Bible?
When did the start God allows suffering?
Why God ALLOWS sufferings?
Who is ruling this world, God or Satan? Human life's fare depends on the ruler, am i right?
If not God, why did he allows satan to rule, is there an issue?
Jehovah's witnesses are happy to show you from the Bible regarding this. why not contact them in your local area.
thank you for reading.
skydivephil
Active Member
As one of my other posters has said then, why tell anyone about jesus? if they dont kow about him they cant go to hell for not acceptign his message. This is especially important as you have told us the existence of god is not clear.
You say the universe must have structure, but god does intervene. So why does he not intervene do stop unnecesarry suffering? You can't have it both ways, Either he peromed miracles int he past and the reality of the Chritian message is clear in which case he can perform miracles again. Why would he want to make his message clear to people 2,000 years ago but not to people today? If he doesnt perform miracles the Chritistian messgae is false.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
Can you be certain that God does no longer performs miracles? And pls bear in mind that a miracles does not have to be "Hollywood" ie. a parting of the waters or the giving of sight to the blind.
Danmac
Well-Known Member
I have yet to see you debate anything. All you ever offer is insults. The reason may be that you are ill equipped to participate in these debates. IMO
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess.
Danmac
Well-Known Member
Yes, I am quite humored by your posts. A good laugh always helps me sleep at night.