I can't decide whether God exists!

[yodachoda]

So I've been on this earth for 23 years. For the first 17 or so, I "kinda" believed in God, just went along with what my family said. Went to church, but more to see friends than for any other reason. Since 18, I have been unsure whether God exists. I've never "experienced" God, and I've never heard God speaking to me at any point in my life. But I've lived a fairly sinful life up to this point, even though I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, steal, and I've never murdered or physically harmed someone. By sinful, I mean somewhat selfish.

Anyway, what it would take for me to 100% believe in God is seeing a miracle, such as the ones Jesus did, or God did such as raining frogs in Egypt. Or hearing a voice speaking to me that I'm sure isn't myself.

Reasons I don't believe in God 100% is it just seems perfectly logical and possible that all life on Earth evolved from very simple, microscopic lifeforms. I'm a biology major, and I believe 100% in evolution (in fact, I've seen it happen in yeast with my own eyes). Also, I've seen a UFO once, and if they are indeed piloted by extraterrestrials, I think that disproves God because he created humans to have dominion over all things. That wouldn't make sense if there were life forms more intelligent than humans. Also, the question of why did God create such a universe so vast if we humans probably won't even be able to see it?

Reasons I believe there's some chance god exists is near death experiences. I'm reading Descent into Death by Howard Storm, and I'm getting chills reading it because what it describes is almost exactly what my church tells me spirit world is like.

THoughts?

 

[quadman19]

Since you're a biology major you should try looking at it through a rational, scientific viewpoint instead of searching for a "feeling". I'm glad you see evolution as a fact because it truely is a wonderful discovery and understanding of life. Things like raining frogs or fish are actually common and aren't supernatural. [youtube]MKWfNSFXzqw[/youtube]
‪BBC Supernatural (raining fish!!!!)‬‏ - YouTube
Even though we haven't discovered alien life forms, when you look at the vastness of the universe i think the odds of there NOT being life are highly unlikely. When you say you can't decide whether god exists, what or which one are you talking about? Do some research into NDE's and you'll see they are psychological events caused my chemicals. Just search for whatever makes YOU happy and not your parents, friends, church, or whoever. If you don't believe in god thats fine, if you do thats fine too. It all comes down to what makes sense and fits you personally.

 

[bobhikes]

Anyway, what it would take for me to 100% believe in God is seeing a miracle, such as the ones Jesus did, or God did such as raining frogs in Egypt. Or hearing a voice speaking to me that I'm sure isn't myself.

Reasons I believe there's some chance god exists is near death experiences. I'm reading Descent into Death by Howard Storm, and I'm getting chills reading it because what it describes is almost exactly what my church tells me spirit world is like.

THoughts?

Sounds like you need more time and experiences. Go though the forums a lot of questions have already been answered 100 times over. Have fun debating with others. Here's something I like to do. Take the opposite side of what you believe and try to prove it.

Anyways welcome, Can't debate because only you can decide what is true for you.

 

[yodachoda]

You should like an atheist, huh quadman? Anyway, I think it's possible for evolution to exist AND for God to exist at the same time. For example, god could have designed the genetics system, and KNEW that live would evolve on earth from a single bacteria (which he created himself). Then, much later, at the point that monkeys evolved into humans, well those two first humans could have been Adam and Eve. So evolution doesn't prove or disprove God IMO.

 

[waitasec]

is it really important for you to know?


btw, welcome

 

[Tristesse]

You should like an atheist, huh quadman? Anyway, I think it's possible for evolution to exist AND for God to exist at the same time. For example, god could have designed the genetics system, and KNEW that live would evolve on earth from a single bacteria (which he created himself). Then, much later, at the point that monkeys evolved into humans, well those two first humans could have been Adam and Eve. So evolution doesn't prove or disprove God IMO.

A lot of people believe both in evolution and in a god. But I'm not an atheist because evolution is a fact, I'm an atheist because there is no evidence for a god.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Monotheism is really messy in my opinion.

 

[quadman19]

You should like an atheist, huh quadman? Anyway, I think it's possible for evolution to exist AND for God to exist at the same time. For example, god could have designed the genetics system, and KNEW that live would evolve on earth from a single bacteria (which he created himself). Then, much later, at the point that monkeys evolved into humans, well those two first humans could have been Adam and Eve. So evolution doesn't prove or disprove God IMO.

I'm not saying you should be an atheist at all. You can believe in evolution and god if that makes sense to you but it isn't necessary to invoke a deity in the process of evolution. You sound like you sway towards Deism.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

You should like an atheist, huh quadman? Anyway, I think it's possible for evolution to exist AND for God to exist at the same time. For example, god could have designed the genetics system, and KNEW that live would evolve on earth from a single bacteria (which he created himself). Then, much later, at the point that monkeys evolved into humans, well those two first humans could have been Adam and Eve. So evolution doesn't prove or disprove God IMO.

Adam and Eve were the first two people on Earth according to the Bible, and God made animals after them.

I know why you can accept evolution, it has tons of evidence, but please explain to me this:

1.Why do you want to believe in a God? (If no reason go on to question two, if a reason move onto question three)

2.What evidence do you have for one? (None only faith, move on to question four, given evidence stop, if you claim the Bible or another Scripture move on to question five).

3. Why not believe in this God but not Zeus? (Stop)

4. Why not have faith in Zeus or another God? Why just one God? (Stop)

5. What evidence do you have for this scripture being correct and no other ones? (If you say faith go to question four, if you have evidence stop)

 

[The Sum of Awe]

^The ones I said stop on means I will reply to your work, BTW.^

 

[otokage007]

So I've been on this earth for 23 years. For the first 17 or so, I "kinda" believed in God, just went along with what my family said. Went to church, but more to see friends than for any other reason. Since 18, I have been unsure whether God exists. I've never "experienced" God, and I've never heard God speaking to me at any point in my life. But I've lived a fairly sinful life up to this point, even though I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, steal, and I've never murdered or physically harmed someone. By sinful, I mean somewhat selfish.

Anyway, what it would take for me to 100% believe in God is seeing a miracle, such as the ones Jesus did, or God did such as raining frogs in Egypt. Or hearing a voice speaking to me that I'm sure isn't myself.

Reasons I don't believe in God 100% is it just seems perfectly logical and possible that all life on Earth evolved from very simple, microscopic lifeforms. I'm a biology major, and I believe 100% in evolution (in fact, I've seen it happen in yeast with my own eyes). Also, I've seen a UFO once, and if they are indeed piloted by extraterrestrials, I think that disproves God because he created humans to have dominion over all things. That wouldn't make sense if there were life forms more intelligent than humans. Also, the question of why did God create such a universe so vast if we humans probably won't even be able to see it?

Reasons I believe there's some chance god exists is near death experiences. I'm reading Descent into Death by Howard Storm, and I'm getting chills reading it because what it describes is almost exactly what my church tells me spirit world is like.

THoughts?

I must compliment you for growing up in a religious family and still have doubts about God existence. You are clever.

Welcome to the forums.

 

[yodachoda]

Adam and Eve were the first two people on Earth according to the Bible, and God made animals after them.

I know why you can accept evolution, it has tons of evidence, but please explain to me this:

1.Why do you want to believe in a God? (If no reason go on to question two, if a reason move onto question three)

2.What evidence do you have for one? (None only faith, move on to question four, given evidence stop, if you claim the Bible or another Scripture move on to question five).

3. Why not believe in this God but not Zeus? (Stop)

4. Why not have faith in Zeus or another God? Why just one God? (Stop)

5. What evidence do you have for this scripture being correct and no other ones? (If you say faith go to question four, if you have evidence stop)

1. I want to believe because if I don't, and I don't live a good live, I will have to spend a long time in hell. From what I've learned from my church, the harsh reality is that I will go to hell if I die right now. I've never killed anyone, only stolen something (that costed $15) once, I've never physically hurt someone. But if there is a God, when I am judged right after I die he will say "I don't know you". And that's hell according to my church.

3. Because the only religion I've been exposed to all my life is Christianity, and it makes the most sense to me and is the most popular religion.

 

[hamza abdulhakim]

Hello,

Years ago I was in a very similar position as you describe. For a start I think you should get rid of the idea you can somehow know with absolute certainty if God exists or not. There are hardly any things about reality we can say with a 100% certainty. For most things we believe we may have good reasons, but they hardly ever get even near to 100% of sureness. I personally think I have some really good arguments why I believe God exists, but I wouldn't say I know with 100% certainty I am right in my belief regarding God.

As a second step I think you should take a look in a field called 'natural theology' which basicly tries to give arguments for the existence of God from reason and logic without appealing to any scriptural text. Then you can take a look in what arguments are there against the existence of God and if you find one side more compelling you should make 'a leap of faith' and choose one even if you are not 100% certain about it. If you find no side more compelling at the moment you should suspend your judgement and may think and or read more about the subject until you feel you can decide which view make most sense to you.

 

[Tristesse]

1. I want to believe because if I don't, and I don't live a good live, I will have to spend a long time in hell. From what I've learned from my church, the harsh reality is that I will go to hell if I die right now. I've never killed anyone, only stolen something (that costed $15) once, I've never physically hurt someone. But if there is a God, when I am judged right after I die he will say "I don't know you". And that's hell according to my church.

3. Because the only religion I've been exposed to all my life is Christianity, and it makes the most sense to me and is the most popular religion.

You have an equal chance of going to hell if you pick the wrong religion, correct? What if Islam is correct, aren't you going to hell according to their religion? My position is, until there is evidence to justify a belief it's not worth your time and devotion.

Truth is not determined by how many people believe something. People have believed a lot of crazy stuff over the years.

 

[yodachoda]

Also, one more thing that made me post this topic. And this may be the strangest thing that's ever happened to me. Could is possibly be a coincidence? I've NEVER seen any type of "sign" from God except for possibly this:

After basically living like an atheist for 5 years, I went to a church workshop to learn about God, the Bible, the afterlife, ect. It was one week, 10-14 hours of lecture per day.

The day after I got home, I was watching TV. I stepped into the bathroom, and for some reason was thinking "why doesn't God perform miracles? Why did he perform them back then but not now?". Then I stepped back into the living room, and the TV screen was black and fuzzy. I've never seen that happen before. No one else was in the room, and there's no pet or anything that could have stepped on the remote.

It was kinda cloudy that night, and stormed later that night. Is it possible it's just a coincidence and that the weather made the TV go out? Almost seems too incredible to be a coincidence?

 

[otokage007]

Hello,

Years ago I was in a very similar position as you describe. For a start I think you should get rid of the idea you can somehow know with absolute certainty if God exists or not. There are hardly any things about reality we can say with a 100% certainty. For most things we believe we may have good reasons, but they hardly ever get even near to 100% of sureness. I personally think I have some really good arguments why I believe God exists, but I wouldn't say I know with 100% certainty I am right in my belief regarding God.

As a second step I think you should take a look in a field called 'natural theology' which basicly tries to give arguments for the existence of God from reason and logic without appealing to any scriptural text. Then you can take a look in what arguments are there against the existence of God and if you find one side more compelling you should make 'a leap of faith' and choose one even if you are not 100% certain about it. If you find no side more compelling at the moment you should suspend your judgement and may think and or read more about the subject until you feel you can decide which view make most sense to you.

I don't think that's a good idea. You shouldn't believe in God because of logic and reason arguments, instead you should believe in God because of objective evidence. It's easy to persuade someone with logic and arguments based in reason, easy and nasty.

It was kinda cloudy that night, and stormed later that night. Is it possible it's just a coincidence and that the weather made the TV go out? Almost seems too incredible to be a coincidence?

Too incredible, why? I think our existence is a greater coincidence

 

[Tristesse]

Also, one more thing that made me post this topic. And this may be the strangest thing that's ever happened to me. Could is possibly be a coincidence? I've NEVER seen any type of "sign" from God except for possibly this:

After basically living like an atheist for 5 years, I went to a church workshop to learn about God, the Bible, the afterlife, ect. It was one week, 10-14 hours of lecture per day.

The day after I got home, I was watching TV. I stepped into the bathroom, and for some reason was thinking "why doesn't God perform miracles? Why did he perform them back then but not now?". Then I stepped back into the living room, and the TV screen was black and fuzzy. I've never seen that happen before. No one else was in the room, and there's no pet or anything that could have stepped on the remote.

It was kinda cloudy that night, and stormed later that night. Is it possible it's just a coincidence and that the weather made the TV go out? Almost seems too incredible to be a coincidence?

What coincidence? I think you're reading way too much into that. How many times have you question the beliefs that you were taught and nothing strange happened? As humans we have a natural curiosity to seek things that aren't there.

 

[yodachoda]

Believe me, my parents and brother have sometimes mentioned things they thought were a sign from god. I always laughed and said it's a coincidence, or meaningless. But the fact that this occured during the 10 seconds I was in the bathroom, and exactly WHILE I was thinking about signs/miracles from God is when the TV went out. It didn't turn off, it switched to black/white fuzzy static. I hit a button on the remote to fix it. I'm not exaggerating when I say I've NEVER seen a TV go out like this for no reason. The only time's I've seen it before was during power outages, but this was no power outage. This truly seems like it can't be just a coincidence.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

1. I want to believe because if I don't, and I don't live a good live, I will have to spend a long time in hell. From what I've learned from my church, the harsh reality is that I will go to hell if I die right now. I've never killed anyone, only stolen something (that costed $15) once, I've never physically hurt someone. But if there is a God, when I am judged right after I die he will say "I don't know you". And that's hell according to my church.

Pascal's Wager has gotten to you, hasn't it? Well, you are in just as much danger living as an atheist as being a part of Christianity. What if God is sick of fundamentalists praising him and only allows Atheists in heaven?

But why believe in Hell, at all, if you are an atheist. Sure I am agnostic about it, it can be possible only because it says it has a way of going against science.

But I really, really doubt it is real.

Even if you don't doubt it is real, you would need to ask yourself, proof?

You will need to realize you are not going to be any safer being a Christian.

3. Because the only religion I've been exposed to all my life is Christianity, and it makes the most sense to me and is the most popular religion.

Argument Ad Populous doesn't work good.

Also, it is the most popular religion, but not the most popular belief or lack of there for.

There are more insects and non-human animals that are conscious in the world than humans, and most of them are atheists, they don't have any known idea of God. Let alone, babies are atheists also, and so are regular atheists today.

Though it is the only religion you grew up with, hence making the most sense, it does NOT make it the most logical one, nor the one that has to be true.

 

[Tristesse]

Believe me, my parents and brother have sometimes mentioned things they thought were a sign from god. I always laughed and said it's a coincidence, or meaningless. But the fact that this occured during the 10 seconds I was in the bathroom, and exactly WHILE I was thinking about signs/miracles from God is when the TV went out. It didn't turn off, it switched to black/white fuzzy static. I hit a button on the remote to fix it. I'm not exaggerating when I say I've NEVER seen a TV go out like this for no reason. The only time's I've seen it before was during power outages, but this was no power outage. This truly seems like it can't be just a coincidence.

I can't really comment on your experience, but from my point of view, I've seen tv's go out like that plenty of times. I wouldn't even call it a coincidence, it sounds pretty mundane. Again, my question is, How many times have you doubted your belief and nothing out of the ordinary happened? Surely that must be evidence that god doesn't exist? Thats pretty much the same type of reasoning. People remember the hits and forget the misses.