I Could Care Less

[ChristineM]

Same in Italy of course. I imagine lots of tourists get served an espresso that they didn't want.

Been there done that.

Enjoyed it though, it was the beginning of my conversion to strong coffee.

 

[Secret Chief]

Been there done that.

Enjoyed it though, it was the beginning of my conversion to strong coffee.

Is a decaff espresso a crazy paradox (akin to mixing matter and anti-matter) or just an abomination? I imagine asking for one in Italy could get you arrested.

 

[Estro Felino]

I never make that mistake, because in my language it's identical, and it's negative as well.

But people prefer to say it in Roman dialect. LOL.

 

[ChristineM]

Is a decaff espresso a crazy paradox (akin to mixing matter and anti-matter) or just an abomination?.

Yes

I imagine asking for one in Italy could get you arrested.

Quite probably though you can order a "hag" and get away with it

 

[Little Dragon]

Much easier in France, an espresso is simply called a café. It's all the others that need fancy name's

Yeah, I made that mistake. When I went to Calais for the first time on a cross channel school trip to La France, as they call it.
I ordered a cafe in a cafe, and I got a tiny cup of absurdly strong coffee. I was expecting something else, which was called a cafe au lait avec sucre.

 

[Stevicus]

Er no, it's just wrong.
The fact that Florence is Firenze is irrelevant.

Oxford Dictionaries online states "The spelling "expresso" is not used in the original Italian and is strictly incorrect, although it is common." (in America).

"Express" and "espresso" come from the same root word "exprimere." (Latin Definition for: exprimo, exprimere, expressi, expressus (ID: 19930) - Latin Dictionary and Grammar Resources - Latdict)

Espresso - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Some English dictionaries translate espresso as "pressed-out",[32] but the word also conveys the senses of expressly for you and quickly:

The words express, expres and espresso each have several meanings in English, French and Italian. The first meaning is to do with the idea of "expressing" ("pressing out of") or squeezing the flavour from the coffee using the pressure of the steam. The second meaning is to do with speed, as in a train. Finally there is the notion of doing something "expressly" for a person ... The first Bezzera and Pavoni espresso machines in 1906 took 45 seconds to make a cup of coffee, one at a time, expressly for you.[33]

Modern espresso, using hot water under pressure, as pioneered by Gaggia in the 1940s, was originally called crema caffè (in English, "cream coffee") as seen on old Gaggia machines, due to the crema.[34] This term is no longer used, though crema caffè and variants (caffè crema, café crema) still appear in branding.

Variant spelling[edit]​

The spelling expresso is mostly considered incorrect, though some sources call it a less common variant.[35] It is common in French and Portuguese. Italy uses the term espresso, substituting s for most x letters in Latin-root words, with the term deriving from the past participle of the verb esprimere, itself derived from the Latin exprimere;[36] x is not considered part of the standard Italian alphabet. Italian people commonly refer to it simply as caffè (coffee), espresso being the ordinary coffee to order; the same happens in Portugal (café), with some regional variations (bica in Lisbon and cimbalino traditionally in Porto); in Spain, while café expreso is seen as the more "formal" denomination, café solo (alone, without milk) is the usual way to ask for it when at an espresso bar.

Some sources state that expresso is an incorrect spelling, including Garner's Modern American Usage.[37] While the 'expresso' spelling is recognized as mainstream usage in some American dictionaries,[38][39] some cooking websites call the 'x' variant illegitimate.[40][41][42] Oxford Dictionaries online states "The spelling "expresso" is not used in the original Italian and is strictly incorrect, although it is common."[43] The Oxford English Dictionary and Merriam-Webster call it a variant spelling.[37][44] The Online Etymology Dictionary calls "expresso" a variant of "espresso".[45] The Oxford Dictionary of American Usage and Style (2000) describes the spelling expresso as "wrong", and specifies espresso as the only correct form.[46] The third edition of Fowler's Modern English Usage, published by the Oxford University Press in 1996, noted that the form espresso "has entirely driven out the variant expresso (which was presumably invented under the impression that it meant 'fast, express')".[47]

I understand that it's considered wrong, mainly because it's a borrowing of a foreign word, and it's expected that the rules of pronunciation and orthography of the foreign language would carry over with the word. Hence, as you say, "expresso" is incorrect because it is not used in the original Italian.

But if we're going to call something incorrect because it is not spelled or pronounced as in the original language, then that would apply equally to "Rome"/"Roma" or "Florence"/"Firenze" (or maybe "Warsaw"/"Warszawa," "Moscow"/"Moskva," etc.).

 

[rocala]

I once worked with a Yorkshireman, an ex-sergeant in the Coldstream Guards. He had strong opinions about a person's appearance. If you were really well turned out, the highest compliment that you could receive was "smarter than a box of chocolate frogs."
I have no idea where this comes from and I doubt it is ancient, but it is a wonderful example, in my opinion, of the use of language.

 

[rocala]

I presume that words have at least some of their variations because of accents. These it seems are still arising. Many young Londoners I hear, are infected with a new variety.
I was recently having a pub lunch and was seated next to a table of young women. One asked another, "What does your husband do?" Her friend replied " He's a manny jar", with a strong emphasis on the last syllable.
It took me a moment to realise that he is a manager.

 

[Secret Chief]

"Express" and "espresso" come from the same root word "exprimere." (Latin Definition for: exprimo, exprimere, expressi, expressus (ID: 19930) - Latin Dictionary and Grammar Resources - Latdict)

Espresso - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I understand that it's considered wrong, mainly because it's a borrowing of a foreign word, and it's expected that the rules of pronunciation and orthography of the foreign language would carry over with the word. Hence, as you say, "expresso" is incorrect because it is not used in the original Italian.

But if we're going to call something incorrect because it is not spelled or pronounced as in the original language, then that would apply equally to "Rome"/"Roma" or "Florence"/"Firenze" (or maybe "Warsaw"/"Warszawa," "Moscow"/"Moskva," etc.).

Well in the UK "expresso" is seen as a mistake.

 

[Little Dragon]

But people prefer to say it in Roman dialect. LOL.

Bloody Romans...

 

[Little Dragon]

Well in the UK "expresso" is seen as a mistake.

It's a mistake to order it, brrr. Orrible stuff. You need to drink a whole bottle of water, just to wash the bitterness away. Nasty!

 

[Wu Wei]

I have said, to a lot of people, who have said "I could care less"... "so you care".... none have yet understood what I meant.... without additional explanation

 

[Wu Wei]

My wife is American, I'm Aussie and we confuse each other with these things at times. She says "could care less" and I say "couldn't care less". The most confusing though is "lucked out"... when she says it she means good luck but when I say it I mean bad luck.

My wife is from Mainland China..... you have no idea how lucky you are when it comes to this subject

 

[SalixIncendium]

I have said, to a lot of people, who have said "I could care less"... "so you care".... none have yet understood what I meant.... without additional explanation

I usually ask "how?"

The response is usually "how what?"

 

[ChristineM]

It's a mistake to order it, brrr. Orrible stuff. You need to drink a whole bottle of water, just to wash the bitterness away. Nasty!

'tiz wonderful, add a dash of steamed milk to make it a machiatto or noisette, supeeb for a morning pick me up

 

[Little Dragon]

'tiz wonderful, add a dash of steamed milk to make it a machiatto or noisette, supeeb for a morning pick me up

With the milk, sounds better. TBH I tried espresso that one time only. I drink a latte or mocha, usually. Not very macho, but there we are!

 

[rocala]

supeeb

I hope supeeb enters the English language, I love it.

 

[Little Dragon]

My wife is from Mainland China..... you have no idea how lucky you are when it comes to this subject

Mine is Irish, she uses more colourful, some would say, vulgar, language to express her indifference. A fiery people, the Celts.

 

[Stevicus]

Well in the UK "expresso" is seen as a mistake.

It's seen as a mistake in the U.S., too, though for different reasons than the other phrases from the OP list.

Some of it may be just a form of defiance, as it might be a case of people knowing the correct way to say it, yet still defiantly saying it wrong. Like when Denis Leary rants about how to pronounce "pâté." ("I'm an American, I pay my taxes, it's pate.")

I remember a scene from the movie Showgirls where the main character says she bought a new dress at "Ver-says," which was "Versace." Under the rules of English pronunciation, it would be "ver-says," but that's not the correct way to say it. (Incidentally, when I first read about the Treaty of Versailles, I pronounced it just like it was spelled.) There was a veneer of classism from that, in that it's an upscale store which only wealthy people could afford, so someone who isn't familiar with it or didn't know about it must be some low-class unsophisticated hick.

As a result, there might be those who intentionally mispronounce or misspell something just to offend the snobs, as a way of getting their goat.

 

[rocala]

I hope supeeb enters the English language, I love it.

Words come about in many ways, it seems.