Theres no need to fight it. Get them educated and realize how sick it is. Christians and jews can go back to being jesus all together you got the power to do it. Set a 1000 khz on them and put them in jail and fix it. I don't care where you put people as long as you give them education. Learn the asian/african language and go do it. Don't ever again make slave out of foreign nations, that's it. Any religous views is proclamation of anything people work for. We can't sit watch enslavement of the foreign. There's no need to give islamists our identity as long as we got the force to stop the wars.
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I give up fighting Islamophobia
- Thread starter nazz
- Start date
well we work for freedom for the people and i hope people will use it and get life where it's suppose to be. Therefore wars has to end and we have to free religious views from our head. 12 personalities and all free will create some conflicts but that's the principle. Enslavement in society is still a fact and that has to stop. priorities in life is all listed in bible and in islam and we just need to deal with the issues, until people get into reality world and get life where it should be in psychological principles we ain't gonna make a change. Unfair advantages is sometimes needed but all in all families has to begin stick together to get things in control.
Augustus
…
Large numbers of Arabs were Jews or Christians though, you might want to study Arab culture too. The idea that 'Arabs' were some distant people is nonsense. They were right in the middle of the Roman/Persian zone of influence. South, East, West and North Arabia are well known as being areas full of people adhering to the Abrahamic faiths, we can probably assume central Arabia was far from untouched by this also.
ok the bible has a very bad thought. YOu ain't suppose to take what's in it, but think what is best for you and you need other religious thoughts to figure what is best for you. Chinese mythology is way more in truth atleast relationship wise. all books are history, and you can't contemplate and live them all out or think that anything in a book can give you anything, but give you a thought you might submiss or get rid of. But it will always be a guidance to find a truth. This is why we have to rule the world out and get insight in what the world has told us and see what ancestors might of done to our dna to find what is right for you. So phobias of ancestors and phobias of historical thoughts won't change the fact that you live in the world today and you know what is right for you. If you listen to your inner voice. That's why religions and society can be more harm than make you become free. Enslavement of the weak can't be a fact, but teach new ideas of history from all sides of truth. In my sense i'm one of the animal lovers or origins so to speak and i still live in harmony after many years of survival egoism and probably slavery in past dna. all philosophy and religious facts has impact on us all and put them together will make a way better life for us all. You can change your thought to be what is you any day if you find ways to deal with who you are. This has nothing to do with social interventions or religious thoughts, but a inner peace that gives you strategies to cope with what is.
Hi farouk,
I think you are not appreciating the perspective from which I read the book. Muslims say that this book is final, unalterable, timeless, and perfect. Am I correct?
If that's the case, then I should NOT need to understand the culture when the book was created. (I have studied the culture a bit, but I deliberately choose NOT to consider the culture as I read.)
Imagine we fast-forward 5000 years from now. The state of the culture in the 7th century will be mostly lost by then. Lost or distorted. If the book is truly timeless, it MUST stand on its own, without any need to refer to the culture when it was created.
As for your comment that Allah knows my heart before I open the book. Ok, for the sake of discussion, let's say that that's true. If so, that only confirms my opinion that Allah is cruel, because he made me only to torture me in hell.
gsa
Well-Known Member
When you refer to burying girls alive, are you suggesting that there was widespread infanticide for the purpose of sex selection? At least one study on this possibility in ancient Rome casts serious doubt on these claims in the European context, because it would create huge, socially ruinous gender disparities, and there is no evidence to support the existence of these disparities despite the (questionable) claim that the practice was widespread. There's no direct evidence of this among Arabs from what I could see, save for the claims contained within the Quran.
faroukfarouk
Active Member
Yep it depends on which part of Arabia you talking about.Yathrib yes more Jews and Christian minority.
Mecca more than 90% idol worshipers (worshiping the devil).
Arabia has a whole the majority of the population were devil worshipers.
Sees
Dragonslayer
I'd be willing to bet they didn't believe in the devil/satan/shaitan - let alone provide it worship.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
It is unlikely that the Pagans saw their numerous gods as being devils. That is an after the fact judgment by Muslim on the former religion they successfully exterminated.
faroukfarouk
Active Member
Yes what the muslims say is correct but if you reading the Noble Quraan a 100 times and you not gaining any beneficial knowledge then don't blame the book.Blame yourself.
Let me ask you a question.
This Surah 6 called "the Cattle".
What is the moral message in this verse?
Please don't tell me it is addressed to the cattle.
icehorse when you chose your morality lesson from Surah 6 these are your words.
" Don't kill your children if you're poor. (really? that needed to be pointed out?)"
You see what you said in brackets is due to ignorance.If you understood Arab culture before the advent of Islam then you would have understood the verse much more clearly.
Its already more than a 1000 years and its not lost nor is it distorted(.I am refering to Arab cultue.)
Allah is all knowing simply means he knew you before you was born,he knows your present decisions that you going to make and he knows what you choose for your future.Simply what i am telling you is he knows you better than you know yourself.He,God,has given you free will to choose between worshiping him or worshiping the devil.The decision you make is yours.He has given man an intellect so that he can reason and distinguish between truth and falsehood.Now if you choose the hellfire then why blame God and call him cruel.
faroukfarouk
Active Member
The Noble Quraan verse is very clear.
Surah An-Nisa 4.117
Transliteration
"In yadAAoona min doonihi illa inathanwa-in yadAAoona illa shaytanan mareed"
They call upon, short of Him (Allah), nothing but inactive entities and they call upon nothing but a manipulating satanic entity.
We in Islam do not have any doubts on who their idol worshiping Gods were.
Surah An-Nisa 4.117
Transliteration
"In yadAAoona min doonihi illa inathanwa-in yadAAoona illa shaytanan mareed"
They call upon, short of Him (Allah), nothing but inactive entities and they call upon nothing but a manipulating satanic entity.
We in Islam do not have any doubts on who their idol worshiping Gods were.
faroukfarouk
Active Member
What you state is false so far as Arab culture is concerned.Not sure on why you are so bias.
Buy yourself a book to cure your ignorance.
The book is called "INFANTICIDE"
Comparative and Evolutionary Perspectives
Editor Glenn Hausfater and Sarah Blaffer Hrdy.
Who is Glenn Hausfater
He was professor at the division of biological sciences at the University of Missouri-Columbia. He is the author of Guidebook for the Long-Term Monitoring of Amboseli Baboons and their Habitat; Dominance and reproduction in Baboons; and Early Vegetation of the Illinois Valley.
Whi is Sarah Blaffer Hrdy
Sarah Blaffer Hrdy is professor emeritus of anthropology at the University of California, Davis. She is the author of The Woman that Never Evolved; The Langurs of Abu; and The Black-Man of Zinacantan
Peace and may God enlighten you with truth.
Augustus
…
It is hard to know this for certain as information is not great from the era. I would assume that the majority was Abrahamic though. The most populated areas would have been mostly Abrahamic. The South which was site of Christian/Jewish conflict shortly before Muhammed's time between Himyar and Axum so can be assumed to be majority Abrahamic. The North, as the domain of Ghassanid and Lakhmids, was almost certainly mostly Christian. The coastal West, must have had a fair number of Abrahamic adherents due to trade etc.
It is very hard to be certain, but I would the majority of Arabs followed Abrahamic faiths. Much of the teachings of Islam seem to make more sense in this historical context anyway. But, I suppose, it can't be proved one way or the other.
Hi farouk,
Well, it seems we might just have to agree to disagree on the point concerning understanding the culture of the day. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that you must understand something about the culture that existed when the book was created. For most books I'd agree. But Muslims claim that THIS book is timeless. If Muslims stopped saying that, then I'd agree that a cultural understanding would be appropriate. So, unless I misunderstand your point, it seems like on the culture question we simply disagree.
As for my free will... Well I was born into a culture that was not religious, but that put a high value on critical thinking and evidence, and that is suspicious about taking anything "on faith". Using your logic, this is the culture that Allah decided to place me in. Given my upbringing, I see all scripture as suspicious, because scripture declares itself to be divinely inspired, but there is no evidence. I could rewrite society's well known moral teachings in my own words, and declare them to be divinely inspired, and I would have as much direct evidence as you do. The religious person's only "evidence" is tautology, in other words no actual evidence at all.
So, IF Allah is as described in the Quran (a possibility that I'll agree is remotely, remotely, remotely possible), then I stand by my claim that he is cruel, at least to me - because I am doing nothing more than using the brain he gave me, as I demand evidence for the extraordinary claims in scripture.
Well, it seems we might just have to agree to disagree on the point concerning understanding the culture of the day. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that you must understand something about the culture that existed when the book was created. For most books I'd agree. But Muslims claim that THIS book is timeless. If Muslims stopped saying that, then I'd agree that a cultural understanding would be appropriate. So, unless I misunderstand your point, it seems like on the culture question we simply disagree.
As for my free will... Well I was born into a culture that was not religious, but that put a high value on critical thinking and evidence, and that is suspicious about taking anything "on faith". Using your logic, this is the culture that Allah decided to place me in. Given my upbringing, I see all scripture as suspicious, because scripture declares itself to be divinely inspired, but there is no evidence. I could rewrite society's well known moral teachings in my own words, and declare them to be divinely inspired, and I would have as much direct evidence as you do. The religious person's only "evidence" is tautology, in other words no actual evidence at all.
So, IF Allah is as described in the Quran (a possibility that I'll agree is remotely, remotely, remotely possible), then I stand by my claim that he is cruel, at least to me - because I am doing nothing more than using the brain he gave me, as I demand evidence for the extraordinary claims in scripture.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
I think that to a certain degree, he's right. Far too many people try to judge other cultures and other times by the moral views of today, as though we've got it right and anyone who disagrees with us has it wrong. From our perspective, Mohammed was a pedophile because his actions fall outside of our modern social norms. In his own society however, what he did was relatively normal and accepted. You can't really hold him accountable to social norms that didn't exist until hundreds of years after he died.
That said, yes, the religious claims about the Qur'an are absurd, just like the religious claims about the Bible are absurd. That's true no matter how you look at the social implications of the actions of ancient people.
Why would anyone do that, unless one tooks as a dogmatic premise that the book must be worth the time?