I have a question about use of niqab and corona face mask.

[Spirit of Light]

They can, but customs does not have to comply with that request nore is it guaranteed that they can.

I don't know how other countries do it. But in Norway the can ask for it. Just like I can ask for a female officer to do the pat down in airports, because don't allow men to touch me.

 

[Cooky]

The other day I was a trip in to the city, and when I was waiting for the bus I wore sunglasses and face mask. Next to me there was a family where the woman wore a niqab.
When we stood there a Norwegian man come up to the woman, starting to bully her for covering up her face.

I stepped for ward and asked the angry man, why he bullied her, but not since I to was covering my face totally and could not be identified, he was unsure what to answer so he run away.

So why is it ok for me to cover up fully, and not her? Is it because she is a Muslim who " don't do it on her free will" ?

Too bad she didn't rip off her niqab and start twerking.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Too bad she didn't rip off her niqab and start twerking.

Seriously?

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Someone who arrived in Norway as a refugee is still a Norwegian.

People adopt nationalities by birth or by choice, and it's problematic to treat only native-born people as the "true" members of a nationality.

No they aren't.

Norwegian refers to born or naturalized (fully adopted the culture, and a legal citizen) people in Norway. There is a difference between learning and abiding by the culture of say UK for years, and me visiting China for 8 weeks on a work visa. I am not Chinese. To consider myself Chinese, I will have given up American citizenship, lived there for years, speak the language (I know less than fifty words of Chinese), marry a Chinese woman, and have Chinese children, and even then I will have Chinese people tell me "You are foreigner" until the day I die, sixty years later ( assuming age 20-30). Depending upon how big a country is into racial identity, if you look different from norm, you may never get accepted.

To call non-Norwegians Norwegian is a trick that the media uses to mask migrant crimes.

 

[Cooky]

Seriously?

That's how we do it here in California... it's our culture.

 

[Spirit of Light]

No they aren't.

Norwegian refers to born or naturalized (fully adopted the culture, and a legal citizen) people in Norway. There is a difference between learning and abiding by the culture of say UK for years, and me visiting China for 8 weeks on a work visa. I am not Chinese. To consider myself Chinese, I will have given up American citizenship, lived there for years, speak the language (I know less than fifty words of Chinese), marry a Chinese woman, and have Chinese children, and even then I will have Chinese people tell me "You are foreigner" until the day I die, sixty years later ( assuming age 20-30). Depending upon how big a country is into racial identity, if you look different from norm, you may never get accepted.

To call non-Norwegians Norwegian is a trick that the media uses to mask migrant crimes.

Normally in Norway we call our new citizens for example Norwegian-Iranian until they get Norwegian citizenship and a Norwegian passport.if they chose to remain their original nationality they are called by that

 

[Spirit of Light]

That's how we do it here in California... it's our culture.

I am very happy I am not to California then.....

 

[stvdv]

The other day I was a trip in to the city, and when I was waiting for the bus I wore sunglasses and face mask. Next to me there was a family where the woman wore a niqab.
When we stood there a Norwegian man come up to the woman, starting to bully her for covering up her face.

I stepped for ward and asked the angry man, why he bullied her, but not since I to was covering my face totally and could not be identified, he was unsure what to answer so he run away.

So why is it ok for me to cover up fully, and not her? Is it because she is a Muslim who " don't do it on her free will" ?

In Holland the law is quite clear about it, see below quote:

The "Partial prohibition of face-covering clothing" law, popularly referred to as the burka ban or nikab ban, will take effect on 1 August 2019. From then on, no face-covering clothing may be worn in education, in government buildings, in healthcare and on public transport.

So, in Holland she should not wear a nikab when on public transport

Of course it's absurd to bully someone. Just remind them politely is sufficient

I don't know what the rules are in Norway. If there is no law against it, then the man clearly has big issues
And I don't get it, those Muslimas look so nice with a Nikab. I find no problem, if they like to wear it
I only once met a very bad Muslima, threatening me "you Dutchmen are weak, in 20 years we have taken over Holland"
But that is already 35 years ago, so she was obviously very bad in fortune telling also

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don't know how other countries do it. But in Norway the can ask for it. Just like I can ask for a female officer to do the pat down in airports, because don't allow men to touch me.

In Belgium, it is standard that female officers do the pat downs of females and male officers do the pat downs of males. And any requests to do it otherwise will likely be refused. They can if they want, but they are under no obligation to do so. So if a gay man wants a female to pat him down, he'll be dependend on the goodwill of the officer to comply with that request.

For pat downs and body searches, there will always be both a female and male officer present.

As for the "reveal" of identity for niqaab wearing women and alike, sure, the can ask for it. But once again, officers are under no obligation to comply with that request. If there are female officers present, they can do it off course, but again they are under no obligation to comply. But more importantly, customs at the airport at Zaventem (Brussels) for example, works in shifts. And there is no guarantee at all that both sexes will be present.

So even if you have officers that have no problem complying to the request, it might very well be that it is impossible to comply, simply because there is no female officer present.

Revealing your face isn't considered a problem at all on the gender level.

In fact, if an officer, regardless of gender, for legit reasons asks you to identify yourself by showing your face, you are by law obligated to comply.

 

[Spirit of Light]

In Holland the law is quite clear about it, see below quote:


So, in Holland she should not wear a nikab when on public transport

Of course it's absurd to bully someone. Just remind them politely is sufficient

I don't know what the rules are in Norway. If there is no law against it, then the man clearly has big issues
And I don't get it, those Muslimas look so nice with a Nikab. I find no problem, if they like to wear it
I only once met a very bad Muslima, threatening me "you Dutchmen are weak, in 20 years we have taken over Holland"
But that is already 35 years ago, so she was obviously very bad in fortune telling also

There will always be some bad or negative people in this world. No matter what culture we come from. And as you say majority of Muslims are good people.

 

[Spirit of Light]

In Belgium, it is standard that female officers do the pat downs of females and male officers do the pat downs of males. And any requests to do it otherwise will likely be refused. They can if they want, but they are under no obligation to do so. So if a gay man wants a female to pat him down, he'll be dependend on the goodwill of the officer to comply with that request.

For pat downs and body searches, there will always be both a female and male officer present.

As for the "reveal" of identity for niqaab wearing women and alike, sure, the can ask for it. But once again, officers are under no obligation to comply with that request. If there are female officers present, they can do it off course, but again they are under no obligation to comply. But more importantly, customs at the airport at Zaventem (Brussels) for example, works in shifts. And there is no guarantee at all that both sexes will be present.

So even if you have officers that have no problem complying to the request, it might very well be that it is impossible to comply, simply because there is no female officer present.

Revealing your face isn't considered a problem at all on the gender level.

In fact, if an officer, regardless of gender, for legit reasons asks you to identify yourself by showing your face, you are by law obligated to comply.

I agree that we should follow the law, but I also think it is good if someone accept religious people's questions in a situation like this.

Personally I would refuse to go through a body check if a female officer was not asked to perform it. If they said no we don't do that. I would go home

 

[ChristineM]

Not just any material. Specific material.



But not like a proper mask would.

Over here in Belgium, if you try getting on a bus with only a scarf wrapped 17 times around your head, you will be refused. A proper mask or no busride. Or at least, that's how the measures are supposed to work. Off course there will be those who don't care enough. But the rules are quite clear and set by science professionals. It's them saying this, not politicians or the CEO of the company that operates the busses.

If clothing would work just as well as masks, there wouldn't have been a "mask shartage crisis" to provide all citizens with proper masks. Then they would have just said "wear a scarf" or whatever.

Of course, in enclosed spaces a proper mask is a must but if met someone in the street wearing a niqab i would be safer than if i met someone with no face covering.

I am not saying the niqab can replace the mask but i am saying, in the open air it is better than nothing

 

[Piculet]

That's why Muslim women seem so submissive. Because from the start, they're having to deal with this stuff.

Female Muslim converts are submissive as well. Islam is about submission.

 

[stvdv]

I am not saying the niqab can replace the mask but i am saying, in the open air it is better than nothing

A relieve to read some common sense on the mask issue.

After hearing recently 5 people claiming "wearing a mask is useless, as the good masks should go to the hospitals"
(and 5 is a lot in my case, as I live quite on my own)

 

[sun rise]

Well of course I don't agree with any such interactions, and I would never do so, but we can't put it simply down to fear of another culture.

Often it is about the erosion of an existing culture/ways of life and such, and one can see examples of this in many cities (especially in the UK and no doubt in many parts of Europe), where the population has shifted over a few decades - sometimes to become more diverse (and usually all the better for such) but often to see an existing culture replaced by, to others, a foreign one - and the niqab/burqa is often seen as a symbol of such. That is, the newcomers not integrating but just taking over. Why wouldn't the original inhabitants feel a little aggrieved about losing what they might have grown up with?

"taking over" is the fear. But is it real or just fear.

Europe and the Americas differ here. We're used to new groups of people coming in, forming enclaves of their peers and gradually blend into the culture. Europe does not have that pattern so it's more jarring.

 

[sun rise]

Female Muslim converts are submissive as well. Islam is about submission.

Voluntary submission to God, yes. But submission as a concept can have many meanings and interpretations.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Because proper face-mask are made of specific material meant specifically for protection against biological agents. Fabric used for clothing does NOT provide that protection. If she was infected and not wearing a proper mask underneath, then she was spreading her germs all over the bus and thus being a biohazard to everybody there

Then most of us are guilty of that, as the medical grade face masks are to be reserved for medical personnel, not the general public, as there's a shortage. The rest of us are to use basically whatever we have to cover our mouth and nose - scarves, bandanas, cotton reusable masks, etc.

So as long as the material of the niqub is thick enough, it's good enough as a face covering.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I am very happy I am not to California then.....

No, that's not Californian culture. Don't let him put you off.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

She doesn't get to complain about me noticing the breasts, if she is the one putting such emphasis on them so that my eyes pretty much automatically are drawn to them.

She does get to complain if you're being a leering creep. There's a way to notice and appreciate the beauty of other's without looking like a total perv, you know.

 

[Spirit of Light]

No, that's not Californian culture. Don't let him put you off.

Maybe I just did not want to meet him