I have a question for all members

[Domenic]

It's about getting out from ones own little group and trotting about in a world, filled with people of different understanding. That understanding does not necessarily conform to your own understanding. If it helps, think of it as a way to learn more about what you really think, by defending your thinking from others who have different viewpoints. It's a win/win thing, to be sure, but not for the faint of heart.


But surely you understand that a truly clever person is not bound by such guidelines as they will rarely break those guidelines in the first place.

I see you have never been in the service.

 

[HonestJoe]

If I know a Bible statment is true, and can be proven as true, My having to say, "In my opinion," in order to not be outside rule 8, puts what I can prove a fact, as nothing more than an opinion...thus it is no longer a fact.

Are we looking at the same rule 8 here because the one I'm reading is about Preaching/Proselytizing. That about the intent behind what you post, not the content in itself. You can state pretty much anything you want with demonstrating it is factual and not fall foul of this rule.

I am a blue chicken.

See? No problem at all (apart from typing with wings ).

 

[Willamena]

*Post Removed*

"God is not real" is as much an opinion as "God is real." If they enforce it, you should too.

 

[Vinayaka]

Does this make sense?

Sorry to disappoint you, but to me it makes no sense at all. :no: If it did make sense to me, I guess I'd be a Christian, wouldn't I?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

AS TO RULE 8.. IN MY OPINION:

I am a person to not beleve everything I read, or hear. If I have an interest, I try to prove, and disprove. Before I believe anything, it has to prove out 100%.
The Bible has some 10,000 Prophecies that can be proven to have come true. There are just a few left to take place.
If these Prophecies in the Bible had not come true, i would have thrown the Bible into the trash years ago. It is because of these Prophecies, the unproven stuff can be trusted, Does this make sense?

As an example, you make assertions about the facts as you believe them to be. I believe the facts to be different: in the Bible (according to one not-necessarily reliable site I just checked), there are some 1,189 verses, comprised of 783,137 words (this of course depends on which version and translation of the Bible you are using--the site I visited seemed to be using King James).

Now then, I don't know exactly what you mean by "Prophecies," but simple division shows that there would have to be roughly 8.4 prophecies per verse, or one prophecy in every (roughly)78.3 words. Being familiar with the Bible, I don't see room for 10,000 prophecies, and I don't see anywhere near that many statements that I could understand in the sense I have of prophecy in the Bible.

I understand that you believe there are 10,000 prophecies and most of them to be proven to have actually occurred, and therefore are facts; I however doubt that your facts accurate--at least, I am inclined to believe that you are mistaken.

Now then, if you explain to me what exactly you understand prophecy to be, and how there can be 10,000 of them in the Bible, then I will have learned something about your beliefs. If you understand my explanation of why I don't accept what you call "facts" as fact, then you will have learned something about my beliefs. We don't have to change our beliefs, we don't even have to accept that the other person is "right." But we learn something about the beliefs of others...and ourselves. Multiply this by many, many discussions, and this is why RF is useful and important.

 

[Domenic]

"God is not real" is as much an opinion as "God is real." If they enforce it, you should too.

Do you see the banner on the top left that reads, "RELIGIOUS FORUMS."
True, you can say anthing about anything, but, if it is of a religios nature, rule 8 says it has to be an opinion...thus this is not a religious forum. Rule 8 makes the forum against religion. And yes, I know some ant-God person will come back with, "My motor bike is my religion, dude."

 

[ImmortalFlame]

*Post Removed*

Rule 8 is about intent, not content. If your words are clearly intended to convert, rather than discuss, then you are in breach of rule 8. If you have come to these forums to tell people about what you believe, you don't always have to state it "as an opinion", but at least make it clear that what you're doing is stating your beliefs rather than attempting to preach or proselytize in order to win over people to your side. If you want people to agree with you, do it with reasoned discussion. Here is an illustration of the distinction:


EXAMPLE 1:
Thread Title: PRAISE GOD!
Original Post: Jesus is my saviour and the Lord is my shepherd! I am a devotee of God and he blesses my life each and every day, and he answers all of my prayers! I was once hopeless and lost, but now I rejoice in the spirit of the Lord for he has washed me of my sins! Praise be to God! If you want to join me in salvation, post PRAISE GOD! But if you don't, you're going to burn in hell forever! God bless!

EXAMPLE 2:
Thread Title: My story and God
Original Post: I embraced Jesus as my saviour and am a devoted Christian, and I feel God works in my life each and every day by answering my prayers. It started when I was in a dark patch in my life, but when I discovered religion it made me re-evaluate my life and I found forgiveness. I praise God, but I worry about others who do not, and it makes me sad to think that there are others who have not accepted God as I believe they will go to hell for it. I was wondering if anyone here wanted to discuss with me their reasons for accepting/rejecting the Lord, so that maybe I can either convince you to join me or, at the very least, reach an understanding as to why you choose to reject God and grow to a common understanding. Thanks for reading!


Note that these two examples are basically saying the exact same thing, and Example 2 doesn't really use the "it's just my opinion" approach that you're suggesting. The big difference really is that the first example is just a declaration of belief and affirming of the poster's position. It doesn't really offer anything to discuss or think about, it's just preaching. Example 2, however, contains all the same basic proclamations are Example 1, but uses it as a starting point for a discussion. Does Example 2 really come off as weaker or less certain in it's convictions than Example 1? I don't think so. From both examples we can conclude that the people writing them are absolutely steadfast in their beliefs and wish to make them clearly known, the only big difference is that one is attempting to explain and discuss while the other is not.

At least, that's how I see it. If anyone else feels that they can more accurately illustrate it, they should.

 

[crossfire]

*Post Removed*

Let's look at Rule 8:

8. Preaching/Proselytizing
The forums are not to be used for converting others to your own faith, against any faith, or recruiting people to join one's party, institution, or cause. This includes placing links or copied material from elsewhere intended for this purpose. Posts of this nature will be edited or removed and are subject to moderation.
​

This is a discussion forum, not and advertizing billboard, so this seems quite reasonable to me.

 

[Sir Doom]

I don't remember any membership fees nor do I remember being required to log in to the forum for any amount of time in any amount of time. I don't get calls, emails, texts, telegrams, singing telegrams, sky-writing, or any other form of communication from the forum wondering why I haven't visited lately. Basically, I am here at my own discretion (within the guidelines of the forum, of course). I intend to stick around because I find the wealth of information here to be astounding. I also genuinely enjoy the company of many of the posters here (the cyber-company, I suppose). I even enjoy the occasional knock-down drag-outs that happen over sensitive topics (I know the mods hate that ). But really, I will stay no matter how much you disapprove of the forum's intent or its ability to adhere to that intent. The choice is mine as it is yours.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

People who proselytize on RF should be reprimanded for thinking they're going to convert anyone here. If you're that dumb, you deserve to be punished.

 

[Willamena]

Do you see the banner on the top left that reads, "RELIGIOUS FORUMS."
True, you can say anthing about anything, but, if it is of a religios nature, rule 8 says it has to be an opinion...thus this is not a religious forum. Rule 8 makes the forum against religion. And yes, I know some ant-God person will come back with, "My motor bike is my religion, dude."

Well, it is......

 

[Domenic]

As an example, you make assertions about the facts as you believe them to be. I believe the facts to be different: in the Bible (according to one not-necessarily reliable site I just checked), there are some 1,189 verses, comprised of 783,137 words (this of course depends on which version and translation of the Bible you are using--the site I visited seemed to be using King James).

Now then, I don't know exactly what you mean by "Prophecies," but simple division shows that there would have to be roughly 8.4 prophecies per verse, or one prophecy in every (roughly)78.3 words. Being familiar with the Bible, I don't see room for 10,000 prophecies, and I don't see anywhere near that many statements that I could understand in the sense I have of prophecy in the Bible.

I understand that you believe there are 10,000 prophecies and most of them to be proven to have actually occurred, and therefore are facts; I however doubt that your facts accurate--at least, I am inclined to believe that you are mistaken.

Now then, if you explain to me what exactly you understand prophecy to be, and how there can be 10,000 of them in the Bible, then I will have learned something about your beliefs. If you understand my explanation of why I don't accept what you call "facts" as fact, then you will have learned something about my beliefs. We don't have to change our beliefs, we don't even have to accept that the other person is "right." But we learn something about the beliefs of others...and ourselves. Multiply this by many, many discussions, and this is why RF is useful and important.

Thank you for this comment. I have all 10,000 on file, and in order of all the books in the Bible. I was going to post just a small section, but could not.

"The text that you have entered is too long (77723 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long."

I can send you a complet list via email if you want?

 

[Domenic]

People who proselytize on RF should be reprimanded for thinking they're going to convert anyone here. If you're that dumb, you deserve to be punished.

I don't think you understand why Christians talk to people about Gods word. We are not trying to convert anybody. if your that dumb to think we are, well, it dosen't matter if you understand or not.

 

[ChristineES]

I think the forum is for:
1. Learning about faiths
2. Learning about differences within the same faith
3. Learning about differences and similarities in other faiths
4. Debating the existence of God
5. Many other things.

 

[ChristineES]

I don't think you understand why Christians talk to people about Gods word. We are not trying to convert anybody. if your that dumb to think we are, well, it dosen't matter if you understand or not.

This I agree with. When I speak of my belief in God, it is never with the intention of converting people to my faith. I have always believed that, no matter what they hear, people are able to choose what their faith is or if they have any faith at all. I think people are a lot smarter than we think they are.

 

[Sir Doom]

I don't think you understand why Christians talk to people about Gods word. We are not trying to convert anybody. if your that dumb to think we are, well, it dosen't matter if you understand or not.

How do I put a in caps?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

How do I put a in caps?

I dunno...use two or three of them?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't think you understand why Christians talk to people about Gods word. We are not trying to convert anybody. if your that dumb to think we are, well, it dosen't matter if you understand or not.

If you're not proselytizing, then my comments don't apply to you. If you're proselytizing but claim not to be, then not only do my comments apply to you, but you're also dishonest.

 

[Sir Doom]

I dunno...use two or three of them?

Nah, being quoted will do for now

 

[Flankerl]

This I agree with. When I speak of my belief in God, it is never with the intention of converting people to my faith. I have always believed that, no matter what they hear, people are able to choose what their faith is or if they have any faith at all. I think people are a lot smarter than we think they are.

Always depends on the context.