I have some deep question about God, help!

[Maximilian]

I do not hold mothers up as the living embodiment of love. That was the other poster you were posting to.
God is the embodiment of love. Jesus was also.

So can you answer my question about abortion or is that too personal?

Sure, here you go: LMGTFY

 

[Maximilian]

For what thou hast done, thy kingdom shall be thrown into confusion, and thine empire shall pass from thine hands, as a punishment for that which thou hast wrought. Then wilt thou know how thou hast plainly erred. Commotions shall seize all the people in that land, unless thou arisest to help this Cause, and followest Him Who is the Spirit of God (Jesus Christ) in this, the Straight Path. Hath thy pomp made thee proud? By My Life! It shall not endure; nay, it shall soon pass away, unless thou holdest fast by this firm Cord.
Tablet to Napoleon III, Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 20-21

Thank you for sharing this. Now, who wrote this and how do we know for certain? How long before the Franco-Prussian war was this recorded and what evidence clearly establishes this? What evidence is there that this was directed at Napolean?

Finally, is there a version of this passage in proper English? Nobody reads Shakespearean anymore.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sure, here you go: LMGTFY

That did not answer it.

You said to the other poster: Any woman who gets pregnant becomes a mother perforce. If she kills her child then she commits murder.

So what about if she allows someone else to perform the abortion, is that murder?

 

[Maximilian]

what about if she allows someone else to perform the abortion, is that murder?

How would it not be murder?

 

[Trailblazer]

Thank you for sharing this. Now, who wrote this and how do we know for certain?

Baha'u'llah wrote this and we know for certain because the original Tablets stamped with His seal are in a vault at the research center in Haifa, Israel.

How long before the Franco-Prussian war was this recorded and what evidence clearly establishes this? What evidence is there that this was directed at Napolean?

The Tablet to Napoleon III was written in 1869.
About the Proclamation of Baha'u'llah
Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh

Finally, is there a version of this passage in proper English? Nobody reads Shakespearean anymore.

No, we have only one official English translation, and that prevents what happened with the Bible from happening ever again.

 

[Trailblazer]

How would it not be murder?

It is a Baha'i belief that the human soul comes into being at the moment of conception, and that is when life begins. So abortion is taking a life. Even the morning after pill could be aborting a life, depending upon when conception took place:

Conception itself can occur anywhere between a few hours and 5 days after intercourse. This is because sperm can live inside your uterus and fallopian tubes for up to 5 days. If during that period you ovulate (release and egg from your ovary), then the sperm can come into contact with the ovum to make an embryo.
How soon after sex can implantation occur? | Zocdoc Answers

 

[Trailblazer]

Outstanding : marked by eminence and distinction

I do not know what you mean by that. Can you give me an example or do you want me to just have a shot in dark?

 

[JChnsc19]

That need not be the case, you know.
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

Only one thing is needed to see clearly, and realize that perceived contradictions and confusion are relative.
Why do you think this is here.

Spoiler

Matthew 13:11-15
11 “To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not granted. 12 For whoever has, more will be given him, and he will be made to abound; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13 That is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. 14 And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.’

Imagine that! An ancient book that never misses hitting the target - 100% accurate. Some person obviously knows more than we do.

An ancient book that never misses the target- 100% accurate.
How well do you think humans in biblical times did with showing dominion over hippos, bears & lions with only a spear or a club? Genesis 1:26

Worship the lord thy god and none will have sickness, miscarry or be barren. Exodus 23: 25-26.

You may be able to significantly advance our space program by correcting incorrect beliefs of NASA. The think the earth is rotating & orbiting, 1 chronicles 16:30 clearly disputes this. They also believe the earth is round, but the Bible says otherwise- Isaiah 11:12.

Whilst the unicorn be willing to serve thee- Job 39:9 Finally! Evidence of unicorns

 

[ManSinha]

Any woman who gets pregnant becomes a mother perforce.

What about those that are raped and get pregnant against their will? Or the ones that have a medical termination of pregnancy before the age of viability in case of a child with a disease such as anencephaly?

Sorry - you are sidetracking this as you are running out of arguments

Your belief systems harken back to the dark ages - "any woman who becomes pregnant becomes a mother perforce" !!!

Indeed - I am darn near sure you have never had anything done to you against your will or consent - else you would be espousing a different set of beliefs

AND you are condemning the lot for the purported actions of a few?

 

[ManSinha]

We really do not have any original scriptures of any religions prior to the Baha’i Faith and that is part of the problem, so all we can do is read what most likely to be the sayings of those Prophets/Messengers. Buddhists have the Sutras, Hindus the Gita, Jews the Torah, Christians the Bible, Muslims the Qur’an, etc.

That is narrow minded - the holy book of the Sikhs was dictated by the fifth Master himself. Due to a misunderstanding the 10th Master was not provided a copy and he dictated it again from memory reprising the original - the two copies were composed about a century apart and are still present today for a word by word comparison. What I am seeing, with due respect is that the Ba'hai writings are a regurgitation of what has come before. There is no originality to be claimed here. I can quote you chapter and verse of where the prior material composed centuries or eons prior was present.

Even that statement that was made elsewhere "Do not refer to me as God - those who do will go to hell" or some such....is present in a near word for word fashion in the writings of the 10th Master

ਜੋ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਉਚਰਿ ਹੈ ॥

Jo Hama Ko Parmesur Auchari Hai ॥

ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਅ. ੬ - ੩੨/੧ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ


ਤੇ ਸਭ ਨਰਕਿ ਕੁੰਡ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਿ ਹੈ ॥

Te Sabha Narki Kuaanda Mahi Pari Hai ॥

Whosoever shall call me the Lord, shall fall into hell.

ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਅ. ੬ - ੩੨/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ


ਮੋ ਕੋ ਦਾਸੁ ਤਵਨ ਕਾ ਜਾਨੋ ॥

Mo Ko Daasu Tavan Kaa Jaano ॥

ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਅ. ੬ - ੩੨/੩ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ


ਯਾ ਮੈ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਰੰਚ ਪਛਾਨੋ ॥੩੨॥

Yaa Mai Bhedu Na Raancha Pachhaano ॥32॥

Consider me as His servant .

ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਅ. ੬ - ੩੨/(੪) - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ


ਮੈ ਹੋ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੋ ਦਾਸਾ ॥

Mai Ho Parma Purkh Ko Daasaa ॥

ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਅ. ੬ - ੩੩/੧ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ


ਦੇਖਨਿ ਆਯੋ ਜਗਤ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥

Dekhni Aayo Jagata Tamaasaa ॥

I am the servant of the Supreme one and hath come to see the Sport of the world.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is narrow minded - the holy book of the Sikhs was dictated by the fifth Master himself. Due to a misunderstanding the 10th Master was not provided a copy and he dictated it again from memory reprising the original - the two copies were composed about a century apart and are still present today for a word by word comparison.

With all due respect, the 10th Master was not a Manifestation of God so his holy book is not a revelation from God. It might be holy, but it is not the same as a revelation.

What I am seeing, with due respect is that the Ba'hai writings are a regurgitation of what has come before. There is no originality to be claimed here. I can quote you chapter and verse of where the prior material composed centuries or eons prior was present.

That is because the spiritual verities of all religions are the same, so of course the principles are the same....
Referring to His Hidden Words, Baha'u'llah wrote:

Part I.—From the Arabic

Preamble

HE IS THE GLORY OF GLORIES

This is that which hath descended from the realm of glory, uttered by the tongue of power and might, and revealed unto the Prophets of old. We have taken the inner essence thereof and clothed it in the garment of brevity, as a token of grace unto the righteous, that they may stand faithful unto the Covenant of God, may fulfill in their lives His trust, and in the realm of spirit obtain the gem of Divine virtue.

The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 3

 

[ratiocinator]

The reason and logic is used to assess the basic theology of the religion and determine if it makes sense to you. For example, does Progressive Revelation make sense to you? Is it logical?

No, it doesn't, for all the reasons I've already given but, even if I did, making logical sense is the barest minimum necessity required to think something might be true - it is nowhere near sufficient reason to do so.

The objective evidence is everything that surrounds the Revelation of Baha’u’llah, including who He was as a Person (His character); His mission on earth; the history of His Cause, from the time He appeared moving forward; the scriptures that He wrote; what His authorized Interpreter wrote; what others have written about the Baha’i Faith; the Bible prophecies that He fulfilled, as well as prophecies of other religions that He fulfilled; predictions He made that have come to pass; the religion that He established (followers) all over the world and what they have done and are doing now.

"Fulfilled prophecies" are two a penny. In all the rest you seem to be confusing evidence that Baha’u’llah existed, wrote what he did, and passed it on, with evidence that it is actually true.

The fact that many people have not heard of it does not mean it is not clear.

Okay - I should heave made this clearer myself. If god has not delivered (to everybody) a clear and unambiguous message, then it is playing a silly and unnecessarily cruel game of hide-and-seek.

The fact that many people claimed to be messengers of God but weren’t does not mean that Baha’u’llah wasn’t.

No but it does mean that your god (if it exists) is hiding its message.

God gave us free will so we would be free to act on our own behalf. The fact that God is omnipotent and omniscient has nothing to do with that. God could override our free will if He wanted to but He doesn’t. God knows what we will do before we do it but God does not cause us to do it.

Without getting into the general problems with "free will", an omnipotent and omniscient creator would have effectively designed all of our natures and all of our nurtures, that is all of our characters. Where then is there any free will?

You cannot blame God if more people do not know about it.

Yes, I can - or rather I could if I thought a god existed. An omnipotent and omniscient god must be perfectly capable of delivering a clear and unambiguous to every single human. If it's an important message, then it is being unjust and unfair in not doing so - and limiting our "free will" as well.

That is the best God can do because God is not going to come swooping down and tell you what to believe.

So this omnipotent and omniscient god is in capable of thinking of anything in between?

 

[ManSinha]

With all due respect, the 10th Master was not a Manifestation of God so his holy book is not a revelation from God. It might be holy, but it is not the same as a revelation.

And you know this how? There is a line that states that the true knowledge imparted comes from the primal light itself -

ਧੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਆਈ ॥

Dhhur Kee Baanee Aaee ||

The Bani of His Word emanated from the Primal Lord.

ਸੋਰਠਿ (ਮਃ ੫) (੭੭) ੨:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੬੨੮ ਪੰ. ੨
Raag Sorath Guru Arjan Dev


ਤਿਨਿ ਸਗਲੀ ਚਿੰਤ ਮਿਟਾਈ ॥

Thin Sagalee Chinth Mittaaee ||

It eradicates all anxiety.

ਸੋਰਠਿ (ਮਃ ੫) (੭੭) ੨:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੬੨੮ ਪੰ. ੨
Raag Sorath Guru Arjan Dev


ਦਇਆਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਮਿਹਰਵਾਨਾ ॥

Dhaeiaal Purakh Miharavaanaa ||

The Lord is merciful, kind and compassionate.

ਸੋਰਠਿ (ਮਃ ੫) (੭੭) ੨:੩ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੬੨੮ ਪੰ. ੨
Raag Sorath Guru Arjan Dev


ਹਰਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਚੁ ਵਖਾਨਾ ॥੨॥੧੩॥੭੭॥

Har Naanak Saach Vakhaanaa ||2||13||77||

Nanak chants the Naam, the Name of the True Lord. ||2||13||77||

ਸੋਰਠਿ (ਮਃ ੫) (੭੭) ੨:੪ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੬੨੮ ਪੰ. ੩
Raag Sorath Guru Arjan Dev


Please, before you go touting the supremacy of the writings of Bahaism - take a moment to study the others around - I am done with this pointless debate!

 

[tayla]

why is there a hell?

In my view, the Christian concept of hell for the unsaved is false.

 

[tayla]

If God is all-loving, why is there a hell, and why do people constantly die needlessly and innocently?

There is no hell.

The question of suffering is unanswerable. My view:

1. God is good and beautiful
2. God doesn't do anything that causes suffering

Some think there are two Gods: one good, one bad. I reject this idea.

Some think there is no God and, therefore, suffering is an illusion. I reject this idea.

 

[tayla]

asking God to show me answers to these questions

I doubt God shows people answers. This kind of thinking is the source of revealed religions and revealed spiritual paths. In my view, revealed religions and revealed spiritual paths are not trustworthy sources of truth and knowledge.

Only philosophical reflection can provide light about spiritual questions.

 

[tayla]

The bible states that

In my view, the Bible is fiction and not a trustworthy source of truth and knowledge. Any so-called truths it contains should be judged as such independently via philosophical reflection.

 

[tayla]

If God is perfect and omnipotent

In my view, defining God in terms of philosophical concepts such as all-powerful, timeless, all-knowing, present everywhere, etc; these are useless. God is living and spirit.

 

[tayla]

garden of eden

There was no such place. It's a fictional story.

 

[Maximilian]

What about those that are raped and get pregnant against their will?

What about them?