I have successfully produced a surah equal to that found in the Koran

[-Peacemaker-]

prove it that Zion is in our hearth. I am sorry if I am rude, due to my lack in english, I only try to emphasize that Quran is literally can be examined its facts, not merely a useles poetic content. when I say, for instance, oh my darling your eyes such a full moon, my love as great as rocky mountain, then I have to provide the proof that her eyes like full moon, the love like as great as a mountain. and so on.
Likewise Zion or throne in Zion or Kingdom in hearth, you have to responsible to your assertion, at least literally it must be true.

We believe it literally is true. We believe someday it will be in a physical place. We call that the age to come. For right now you will know his kingdom is coming when you see the fruits of the Spirit of God: love, joy, peace, patience etc. you will know his kingdom is coming when you see miracles; healings, prophecies. So in this age you can't see him sitting on his throne but you can witness his very real presence....in our belief

 

[uncung]

We believe it literally is true. We believe someday it will be in a physical place. We call that the age to come. For right now you will know his kingdom is coming when you see the fruits of the Spirit of God: love, joy, peace, patience etc. you will know his kingdom is coming when you see miracles; healings, prophecies. So in this age you can't see him sitting on his throne but you can witness his very real presence....in our belief

Have you seen his kingdom? who says that the fruits of the spirit of God are joy, peace, patience etc?
is healing a miracle? elaborate it. what prophecies do you mean?
have you witnessed them by your self?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Have you seen his kingdom? who says that the fruits of the spirit of God are joy, peace, patience etc?
is healing a miracle, elaborate it? what prophecies do you mean?
have you witnessed them by your self?

You need to examine the life of Jesus. He brought joy wherever he went. His spirit brings joy and peace. And yes I've witnessed healing miracles personally as well a prophecy. Most Christians believe in a God who speaks today

 

[uncung]

You need to examine the life of Jesus. He brought joy wherever he went. His spirit brings joy and peace. And yes I've witnessed healing miracles personally as well a prophecy. Most Christians believe in a God who speaks today

I know the life of Jesus, from he was infant, his resurrection to the second heaven till judgement day.
But who says he brought joy wherever he went? is that your own statement like you claim the fruit of holy spirits are joy, peace etc?
I ask, is healing a miracle? everyday the doctor perform healing in hospitals. it is not privilege religiously whatsoever.
how come the Christians know the God speaks? weird.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I know the life of Jesus, from he was infant, his resurrection to the second heaven till judgement day.
But who says he brought joy wherever he went? is that your own statement like you claim the fruit of holy spirits are joy, peace etc?
I ask, is healing a miracle? everyday the doctor perform healing in hospitals. it is not privilege religiously whatsoever.
how come the Christians know the God speaks? weird.

Jesus said when it was time to leave the earth that he would send his Spirit to the believers


John 15 “If you love me, keep my commands.16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.The world cannot accept him,because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.


Heres Jesus giving the disciples the ability heal sickness. Most Christians believe this still happens today. Ive seen it myself


Matthew 10 Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.

Here's the fruits of the Spirit which Paul mentions. I know Muslims reject Paul but these qualities were found in Jesus if you read the Gospel. We simply believe that through the Spirit we can exhibit those qualities as well


Galatians 5:22-23 [Full Chapter]
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

 

[firedragon]

I began to nod off after the 5th line. The Qur'an takes me about 10 lines before I start falling asleep.

Could be a health issue.

 

[Gharib]

Hey, you're going to have to ask a Muslim about that. I don't believe it proves the existence of any god; I believe it proves that the author—not a god, in my view—was an outstanding poet.

Muhammed was not a poet though. There is nothing in Islamic literature or otherwise that says he was or that there is evidence he studied or recited poems during his lifetime. He did show appreciation for poetry when others would recite though.

 

[Gharib]

grade it on content. Forgive me I'm not a poet

Muhammed was not a poet either.

 

[Gharib]

Personally, I think the supposed "scientific miracles" and the downright scandalous attempts at demonstrating them by certain Islamic apologists are an insult to the linguistic value of the Qur'an. I can personally respect the claim that the linguistic excellence of the Qur'an is miraculous even though I don't believe in miracles at all, but the "scientific miracles"? That claim just seems to me to tarnish the presentation of a great literary and poetic work.

Dr. Keith Moore seems to say otherwise.

 

[firedragon]

69:41 It is not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe.

 

[FearGod]

Jesus said when it was time to leave the earth that he would send his Spirit to the believers


John 15 “If you love me, keep my commands.16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.The world cannot accept him,because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Heres Jesus giving the disciples the ability heal sickness. Most Christians believe this still happens today. Ive seen it myself


Matthew 10 Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.

Here's the fruits of the Spirit which Paul mentions. I know Muslims reject Paul but these qualities were found in Jesus if you read the Gospel. We simply believe that through the Spirit we can exhibit those qualities as well


Galatians 5:22-23 [Full Chapter]
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

No need for the doctors then.

 

[FearGod]

Is that Lionel Richie your quoting? He wrote a Surah?

At least it touches the heart.

 

[Augustus]

Dr. Keith Moore seems to say otherwise.

Keith Moore accepted a lot of money in the 1980s from the Saudis to allow them to use a copy of his book, altered by a Muslim co-author Abdul Majeed al-Zindani, for teaching embryology. The Islamic aspects are all written by the co-author.

"There is an Islamic edition… it’s really an English edition of my book with Islamic additions. My publisher [Saunders] agreed to allow King Abdulazziz University to print this special edition but it cannot be sold because they don’t want it sold in competition to the regular English edition… You can’t purchase it as I understand it in a regular bookstore, but if you need it for your Muslim libraries you can purchase this. That was the arrangement that was made with my publisher.

The scientific miracles hypothesis was a Saudi invention in the 80s which bribed and pressured a few scientists to say a few positive things and also misrepresented many others. You can find them on the internet talking about it.

Strangely enough none became Muslims and strangely enough the ideas haven't caught on in the field of science and become standard teachings. Can you find Keith Moore talking about it recently, rather than in the pre-internet era when he was being paid a lot and probably though nobody would really even hear what he said?

How many non-Muslim scientists do you know of who didn't take money from the Saudis and who have publicly supported the miracles claim? Recent examples in the internet era?

There is a German Muslim academic who doesn't believe Muhammad existed. You can usually find someone to support just about any view, no matter how ridiculous. Why not discuss what the 99.99% of other scientists would say on the topic?

 

[uncung]

Jesus said when it was time to leave the earth that he would send his Spirit to the believers


John 15 “If you love me, keep my commands.16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.The world cannot accept him,because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.


Heres Jesus giving the disciples the ability heal sickness. Most Christians believe this still happens today. Ive seen it myself


Matthew 10 Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.

Here's the fruits of the Spirit which Paul mentions. I know Muslims reject Paul but these qualities were found in Jesus if you read the Gospel. We simply believe that through the Spirit we can exhibit those qualities as well


Galatians 5:22-23 [Full Chapter]
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

it doesn't answer my questions above.

 

[Sabour]

'm sure the challenge can be undertaken In any language.

No

And there must be ways which we can compare my surah to the Quran even if the language is different

No

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm sure the challenge can be undertaken In any language.

How?

Surely allah won't penalize me for not speaking Arabic.

That's not the point. Arabic is from a completely different language family than English.

Heck, English didn't even exist when the Qur'an was written, in any form.

And there must be ways which we can compare my surah to the Quran even if the language is different. Go ahead and count the poetic devices that I used. You'll see I used quite a few. If you read my surah out loud you'll see there's even a bit of a cadence to it. Without trying to sound too arrogant I think the rhythm is nearly perfect. Mind you it's the rhythm you find in English not Arabic which is definately structured differently. I was so consumed with finding the perfect word to convey my ideas that I placed that priority above rhyming. That's my one regret, that it doesn't rhyme

Fine. I'll play along. Let's compare your work to an English translation.

It still fails.

I don't know a single word of Arabic. However, the English translation of the Qur'an that I first read, and always cite, is Yusuf Ali's. Because when I read it, there's a very real power there, far moreso than any other translation I've read. Your verse had absolutely no power to it. And frankly, I don't even think it's that great of English poetry. It's quite dull and dry, in fact. What cadence? Just looking at the first two lines:

The Lord watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction. Blessed is the one​

The meter seems to flow like this (- for unstressed, ^ for stressed)

-^^-^--^--^-
--^--^-^--^-^-^-^​

It's all over the place. Also, in what dialect has "righteous" ever rhymed with "one"??

Modern English's poetic equivalent to the Qur'an is Shakespeare. And NOBODY has matched Shakespeare to date.

 

[Riverwolf]

Muhammed was not a poet though. There is nothing in Islamic literature or otherwise that says he was or that there is evidence he studied or recited poems during his lifetime.

Well by that logic, technically neither was Shakespeare.

Although, he "never recited poems during his lifetime?" Doesn't the Qur'an count as "reciting poems", since he spoke them aloud?

 

[firedragon]

Well by that logic, technically neither was Shakespeare.

Although, he "never recited poems during his lifetime?" Doesn't the Qur'an count as "reciting poems", since he spoke them aloud?

Shakespeare wrote almost 200 books. Muhammed 1. Shakespeare's career was writing. Muhammed's, trading.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

How?



That's not the point. Arabic is from a completely different language family than English.

Heck, English didn't even exist when the Qur'an was written, in any form.



Fine. I'll play along. Let's compare your work to an English translation.

It still fails.

I don't know a single word of Arabic. However, the English translation of the Qur'an that I first read, and always cite, is Yusuf Ali's. Because when I read it, there's a very real power there, far moreso than any other translation I've read. Your verse had absolutely no power to it. And frankly, I don't even think it's that great of English poetry. It's quite dull and dry, in fact. What cadence? Just looking at the first two lines:

The Lord watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction. Blessed is the one​

The meter seems to flow like this (- for unstressed, ^ for stressed)

-^^-^--^--^-
--^--^-^--^-^-^-^​

It's all over the place. Also, in what dialect has "righteous" ever rhymed with "one"??

Modern English's poetic equivalent to the Qur'an is Shakespeare. And NOBODY has matched Shakespeare to date.

Let's just say I have serious doubts about your ability to judge poetry

 

[FearGod]

Well by that logic, technically neither was Shakespeare.

Although, he "never recited poems during his lifetime?" Doesn't the Qur'an count as "reciting poems", since he spoke them aloud?

I think Shakespeare was much educated during his time.
http://www.shakespeare-online.com/biography/shakespeareeducation.html