I just want to sin!!!

[ppp]

We are least try not to sin.
No one is perfectly sinless, but wouldn't you like be forgiven? Have you ever done anything you felt guilty about?

Let's break this down;

1. Christian sin is specifically an offence against God. So in that respect, I am perfectly sinless.
2. The Christian god's morality does not meet my minimum moral standards. So even if he did exist, his forgiveness would not be of value outside of a Might makes Right scenario.
3. As I do not believe there is a god to offend, the forgiveness of a nonexistent being has no value to me.
4. All of my offences are against living breathing agents. Only they can give me forgiveness for my offences against them. An existent God would have had no standing when I hurt my paramour's feelings last Tuesday. I would always seek their forgiveness over some third party.
5. I apologize to dogs.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Which brings me back to the rapist logic. You question a no, you say "but this and but that," you keep insisting, you keep refusing to listen to and consider the objections, and the lack of verbalized consent does not phase or bother you. Just like a rapist who says "well, she didn't say no." She didn't say yes either, which makes it wrong.
If someone does not give you verbal consent to do something to them then it is wrong to do it. Not understanding this is how your Church got sued over this practice.

If you keep ignoring what I say there's nothing I can do and the conversation goes nowhere.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Doesn't seem to be the case.
Mormons defy church to again perform baptisms on Holocaust victims

Those Mormons are breaking the law and should be excommunicated.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Which brings me back to the rapist logic. You question a no, you say "but this and but that," you keep insisting, you keep refusing to listen to and consider the objections, and the lack of verbalized consent does not phase or bother you. Just like a rapist who says "well, she didn't say no." She didn't say yes either, which makes it wrong.
If someone does not give you verbal consent to do something to them then it is wrong to do it. Not understanding this is how your Church got sued over this practice.

I repeat:

"Some people have misunderstood that when baptisms for the dead are performed, deceased persons are baptized into the Church against their will. This is not the case. Each individual has agency, or the right to choose. The validity of a baptism for the dead depends on the deceased person accepting it and choosing to accept and follow the Savior while residing in the spirit world. The names of deceased persons are not added to the membership records of the Church."

Baptisms for the Dead

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Those Mormons are breaking the law and should be excommunicated.

What's curious is none of the safeguards the Mormon Church claims to have installed prevented this, and it was apparently easy to do.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I repeat:

"Some people have misunderstood that when baptisms for the dead are performed, deceased persons are baptized into the Church against their will. This is not the case. Each individual has agency, or the right to choose. The validity of a baptism for the dead depends on the deceased person accepting it and choosing to accept and follow the Savior while residing in the spirit world. The names of deceased persons are not added to the membership records of the Church."

Baptisms for the Dead

I repeat it's not your place to involve people posthumously. It's very rude, it's very insulting, and very disrespectful towards the deceased amd what the person may have believed.
Why do Mormons struggle with this? They are involving someone entirely without consent. That makes it wrong, no matter how well intentioned.

 

[Valjean]

The more realistic the crutch the better it does.
What counts is having a broken heart and a contrite spirit.

So depression and poor self-esteem?

 

[ppp]

Of course we are allowed but therapists don't help people sort out their feelings about God because that is not their job. They only address psychological issues.

I wasn't sure. Some communities are more insular than others. No offence was intended.

They address internal conflict and help you work you own way to a resolution. A good therapist will not introduce their own perspective into the conversation. They will simply help you unearth the issues you are wrestling with and try to give you the tools to work them out for yourself.

I love my therapist. We come from a similar cultural demographic, but after almost a year I have no clue as to her religious affiliation, or her take on God, if any.

 

[epronovost]

Oh yeah .. "It's not my fault sir, G-d shouldn't have made me".

I wouldn't accept that excuse, so why should G-d or anybody else?

Nobody would accept it because the world is obviously not controlled by a deity interested in having people respect a specific set of behavior and with the power to enforce it.

If I can make you do something and its important for me for you to do it and you don't because I didn't made you do it, I would consider myself responsible for that failing. If I wanted my child to clean his room and he didn't because I didn't told him to do so and didn't check up on him to make sure he carried it through in a satisfactory manner, I would not blame my child. That would be completely unfair to ask the child to guess correctly what he should do, when and how in a consistent manner.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So depression and poor self-esteem?

Another good question for Christians is why are they so obsessed with guilt and feeling it? And you pretty much have to be broken to accept the depth of Biblical claims of how depraved and guilty people are. Everyone is guilty. Everyone deserves death. Everyone deserves Hell.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh yeah .. "It's not my fault sir, G-d shouldn't have made me".

I wouldn't accept that excuse, so why should G-d or anybody else?

If god knows everything then we have no free will because god already knows what we will do, and for him to be omniscient we cannot act in any way that is outside of gods knowledge of future events.

 

[robocop (actually)]

What's curious is none of the safeguards the Mormon Church claims to have installed prevented this, and it was apparently easy to do.

The article said the Church had promised to clean it up as best they can.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I repeat it's not your place to involve people posthumously. It's very rude, it's very insulting, and very disrespectful towards the deceased amd what the person may have believed.
Why do Mormons struggle with this? They are involving someone entirely without consent. That makes it wrong, no matter how well intentioned.

And once again if you reject the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints this is easy to say, but we think we are being the most fair religion on earth.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The article said the Church had promised to clean it up as best they can.

They said that before and it apparently didn't happen because the proxy baptisms of Holocaust victims continued.

 

[robocop (actually)]

So depression and poor self-esteem?

No.

 

[robocop (actually)]

They said that before and it apparently didn't happen because the proxy baptisms of Holocaust victims continued.

They should be excommunicated and I have nothing to do with it.

Same goes for Catholic Priest pedophiles.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And once again if you reject the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints this is easy to say, but we think we are being the most fair religion on earth.

Fair isn't waiting until someone dies to drag their name through your waters. You might as well baptize people after giving them rohypnol. It involves the same level of consent, which is exactly none at all.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Same goes for Catholic Priest pedophiles.

You say that but the Vatican has been shielding them.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Sorry; I just cannot continue this indefinitely when no progress is made.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If god knows everything then we have no free will because god already knows what we will do..

No, no, no.
You are being fooled, if you believe that.

Free-will is not affected by whether I know what you will do tomorrow.
You make your choice. If I am right, then it will be what you chose.

..and for him to be omniscient we cannot act in any way that is outside of gods knowledge of future events.

That is totally irrelevant to free-will. The future is a series of events. They are either known or unknown. It does not effect our free-will either way.

It is by definition that we won't do other than what G-d knows.
It is not that we cannot act in a different way .. it's that we don't want to. If we wanted to, then G-d would know that.
The way you phrase it suggests that we have no choice. We do.