I need Jehovah's Witnesses feed back.Because I always think I am interpreting it right.But am wrong.

[nPeace]

I speak with JW many times each year, very interesting discussions, even with the young guys who preach in the streets. But when asking them a difficult question they have not prepared, they get stuck and do not know what to answer.

They have become like robots

No. Some are still learning. An experienced teacher has more knowledge and understanding than a student.
Were Jesus disciples robots because they did not know certain things, or understand fully?
Are you a robot when you do not know things you haven't yet learned, or understood?

I expected you of all people on these forums to understand that, as you are in that position quite often.

 

[nPeace]

Word by word means litterarly understanding

Really? I'm still lost. You did not simplify. Maybe rephrasing your question might be better.

 

[Frank Goad]

Reading Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Yes, brothers, sisters, and mothers.
Sounds like a spiritual family doesn't it. All of Jesus' followers are a brotherhood.
(1 Peter 2:17) . . .have love for the whole association of brothers. . .

Is the whole association of brothers 'holy brothers'? No.
Consider Matthew 25:40 ...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

At Hebrews 3:1 Paul was not speaking to you Frank; nor me; nor the JW stumpers. Paul was talking to those anointed to be partakers of the heavenly kingdom - the saints.

Notice, they are not the sheep Jesus is addressing identifying as his brothers at Matthew 25. They are the little flock. Luke 12:32 - his brothers.
How many are those? Revelation 7:1-4; Revelation 14:1-4

I am sure this is above your head, but let me know.

Let's make sure it is clear.
Who are the sheep in Matthew 25 assisting?
How many are they among the great multitude? Revelation 7:9
How many are sealed as holy ones? Revelation 7:1-4

Your right.It is above my head.

 

[nPeace]

Your right.It is above my head.

Yes. I know.

 

[Spirit of Light]

No. Some are still learning. An experienced teacher has more knowledge and understanding than a student.
Were Jesus disciples robots because they did not know certain things, or understand fully?
Are you a robot when you do not know things you haven't yet learned, or understood?

I expected you of all people on these forums to understand that, as you are in that position quite often.

What I meant is that each individual person will gain different under of the teaching, same answers seen from different point of views

 

[Spirit of Light]

Really? I'm still lost. You did not simplify. Maybe rephrasing your question might be better.

To take every word in the bible litterarly, or to understand that some of it are meant to be unde4stood on a personal level, and that will be different from pe4son to person.

 

[nPeace]

What I meant is that each individual person will gain different under of the teaching, same answers seen from different point of views

Yes. Relying on themselves, they will.
However, God sent his son to teach the truth.
(John 18:37) . . .I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.. . .

God specifically instructed that person listen to his son (Matthew 17:5)... thus allowing themselves to be taught - not by their own understanding, but by God.
(Isaiah 54:13) And all your sons will be taught by Jehovah, And the peace of your sons will be abundant.
(John 6:45) It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by Jehovah.’ Everyone who has listened to the Father and has learned comes to me.

That's what God's people do. They listen to Jesus.
Because of this, they have the same understanding, and speak in agreement... and they are united in love.

You may be wondering how anyone listens to Jesus today.
The scripture are informative, in answering this question.
If one doesn't pay attention to the following, but glosses over it that's an indication they are not interested in truth.

Matthew 28:18-20
18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

• Jesus has authority both in heaven, and on earth.
• He commands his people to do the work he wants done.
• He promises his support - to be with them to the end of this system.

1) Jesus, from heaven, therefore, is directing his followers on earth.

Acts 1:4-9
4 While he was meeting with them, he ordered them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but keep waiting for what the Father has promised, about which you heard from me; 5 for John, indeed, baptized with water, but you will be baptized with holy spirit not many days after this.” ...8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.” 9 After he had said these things, while they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their sight.

• Jesus promised to direct his people by holy spirit, which would empower them to carry out the work he assigned them to do.

2) Jesus, from heaven, empowers his followers on earth to accomplish his work, worldwide..

Matthew 24:45-47
45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

• Jesus appointed a body by which to teach those who want to be fed by him.

3) Jesus, from heaven, therefore, is teaching the truth to all who would listen, and learn... on earth.

All who listen to Jesus are taught the same thing.
To rely on one's own understanding is not allowing oneself to be taught by the one God has appointed to teach.

Rather than liken it to being robotic, I think of it like an orchestra.

There is one director. All the instrumentalist, play on different instruments, but we know where the beauty of an orchestra lies - the unison. Harmony.
Imagine what would happen if persons decided to go with what they thought.
I don't need to tell you the outcome.

The only reason JWs are united any part of the world you go, is because they is one director - God, who channels his instruction through Christ, who in turn uses holy spirit to channel through the faithful slave.
Thus all of JWs get the same food - the same teachings... worldwide, and they agree, having the same understanding, which unites them in love.

By this all will know that you are my disciples - if you have love among yourselves.
(John 13:35)​

 

[nPeace]

To take every word in the bible litterarly, or to understand that some of it are meant to be unde4stood on a personal level, and that will be different from pe4son to person.

I have found that's how most people want to operate, but I have seen that was never the way of God.

What I see is...
The Israelites had to listen to Moses, and carry out all the instructions God gave them through Moses... to the letter.
All who wanted to do their own thing, express their own viewpoint, were rebellious, against God. See Numbers 16, for example.

God sent Jesus. People had to listen to him. John 6:44
John 14:6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

Jesus left the apostles to carry on the work. People had to listen to them.
2 Corinthians 5:20 Therefore, we are ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.”

What we see in the scriptures, is that God never operates on the basis of human viewpoints, opinions, understanding... It was never a case of, each person having their viewpoint.
It was always a case of it's either truth, or it's false, and God hates falsehood.
He provides the means for us to get truth. Those who love God, loves truth.

John 18:37 I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.. . .
JWs are not like Pilate, thinking that truth is relative to each person. John 18:38

 

[GardenLady]

I am sure this is above your head, but let me know.

Wow. Condescending much?

 

[stvdv]

I don't agree stvdv

Strange

I used the definitions you gave us
Better be a bit more precise
With your definitions
Next time

 

[stvdv]

Relaxing is easier than working.

Not true, if you mean with relaxing "not working"

"not working 24/7" is the hardest thing to accomplish. I know for sure, that you can't do it, for let's say 1 week, or even 1 day (24h)

You agree, I'm sure.

Never be too sure...esp. about others or God for that matter. He might surprise you

 

[nPeace]

Wow. Condescending much?

Frank understands. You might be missing some facts, so I understand your response.

 

[nPeace]

Strange

I used the definitions you gave us
Better be a bit more precise
With your definitions
Next time

Maybe it's a misunderstanding then.
Perhaps you could explain why "Being a Christian is like 100++ times more difficult than being a JW (seeing your definitions)".

 

[nPeace]

Not true, if you mean with relaxing "not working"

"not working 24/7" is the hardest thing to accomplish. I know for sure, that you can't do it, for let's say 1 week, or even 1 day (24h)

Hmmm. You have never met 65% of young people of this generation, who play video games and have a big screen TV, have you.

Never be too sure...esp. about others or God for that matter. He might surprise you

Who... God? Nah. He's too true... I'm sure.

 

[stvdv]

Not true, if you mean with relaxing "not working"

"not working 24/7" is the hardest thing to accomplish.

Hmmm. You have never met 65% of young people of this generation, who play video games and have a big screen TV, have you

I was referring to "no mind state"
Putting the mind to rest

 

[stvdv]

One can only become a JW by completing the following steps.
.......
Until those steps are complete, one is not a JW.

1. have a personal Bible study with one of JW.
2. confirm that they agree that what they are learning is the truth from God's word.
3. associate with JWs at their meetings
4. participate in the ministry with JWs
5. repent of dead works
6. make a dedication to God, to do his will
7. undergo water baptism as one of JWs

Perhaps that's why there are so many "Christians"
Everyone is a "Christian" so long as they declare it.
They are not... but they say it.

A Christian is such, only when they are a follower of Christ - his teachings, and example... at least, in God's view

I don't agree stvdv.
Being a JW is the same as being a Christian, which is 100++ times more difficult than being a "Christian"... the latter just requiring putting on some "Sunday church going threads", and "going to church

Maybe it's a misunderstanding then.
Perhaps you could explain why "Being a Christian is like 100++ times more difficult than being a JW (seeing your definitions)".

Yes, a misunderstanding.

You missed the meaning of your words describing what Christian means according to God

You gave 2 definitions of Christians:
1) Definition by so called Christians
2) Definition by God
Of course I used "God's view" (option 2)

And take your definition very serious

See the bold parts I made in your quote:
A Christian is such, only when they are a follower of Christ - his teachings, and example... at least, in God's view

Your 7 points needed for JW come not even close to a Christian who follows Christ His Teachings AND especially example

Meaning at least to be crucified

Hence my use of "100++"

If you still disagree then show and tell me which of the 7 points trump the 1 point "being Christian" = His Example, as in being crucified

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Yes. Relying on themselves, they will.
However, God sent his son to teach the truth.
(John 18:37) . . .I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.. . .

God specifically instructed that person listen to his son (Matthew 17:5)... thus allowing themselves to be taught - not by their own understanding, but by God.
(Isaiah 54:13) And all your sons will be taught by Jehovah, And the peace of your sons will be abundant.
(John 6:45) It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by Jehovah.’ Everyone who has listened to the Father and has learned comes to me.

That's what God's people do. They listen to Jesus.
Because of this, they have the same understanding, and speak in agreement... and they are united in love.

You may be wondering how anyone listens to Jesus today.
The scripture are informative, in answering this question.
If one doesn't pay attention to the following, but glosses over it that's an indication they are not interested in truth.

Matthew 28:18-20
18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

• Jesus has authority both in heaven, and on earth.
• He commands his people to do the work he wants done.
• He promises his support - to be with them to the end of this system.

1) Jesus, from heaven, therefore, is directing his followers on earth.

Acts 1:4-9
4 While he was meeting with them, he ordered them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but keep waiting for what the Father has promised, about which you heard from me; 5 for John, indeed, baptized with water, but you will be baptized with holy spirit not many days after this.” ...8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.” 9 After he had said these things, while they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their sight.

• Jesus promised to direct his people by holy spirit, which would empower them to carry out the work he assigned them to do.

2) Jesus, from heaven, empowers his followers on earth to accomplish his work, worldwide..

Matthew 24:45-47
45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

• Jesus appointed a body by which to teach those who want to be fed by him.

3) Jesus, from heaven, therefore, is teaching the truth to all who would listen, and learn... on earth.

All who listen to Jesus are taught the same thing.
To rely on one's own understanding is not allowing oneself to be taught by the one God has appointed to teach.

Rather than liken it to being robotic, I think of it like an orchestra.

There is one director. All the instrumentalist, play on different instruments, but we know where the beauty of an orchestra lies - the unison. Harmony.
Imagine what would happen if persons decided to go with what they thought.
I don't need to tell you the outcome.

The only reason JWs are united any part of the world you go, is because they is one director - God, who channels his instruction through Christ, who in turn uses holy spirit to channel through the faithful slave.
Thus all of JWs get the same food - the same teachings... worldwide, and they agree, having the same understanding, which unites them in love.

By this all will know that you are my disciples - if you have love among yourselves.
(John 13:35)​

I would like to know how JW's manage to contrive the translation of servant in Matthew 24, to slave?
It seems odd to me that Jesus should consider his followers slaves when they have free will and choice.
Wouldnt that suggest the word slave is not the correct translation given the theme of the gospel?
Also, why does a person spreading the gospel have to be discreet? Are we hiding something others must not know about?

 

[Brian2]

Jesus' apostles... through the scriptures.

Where in scripture is that told to you? that Heb 3:1 is about the 144000?

It's not a supposition.
The scriptures are clear. Jesus came to gather the lost sheep of Israel.

How did the lost sheep of Israel turn into 144000?

The first to be gathered are the firstfruits to God, and the lamb. They are a small flock. The Bible says they number 144,000. Revelation 14:1-4; Luke 12:32

How do you know that the small flock of Luke 12:32 is the 144000?
Why is the 144000 being added to now when they are clearly not the first fruits?

These are called to be kings and priest, and rule with Christ. They are heirs of the kingdom. They are holy ones - the saints. Daniel 7:18-27; Galatians 3
...and yes, all of the letters of the apostles and disciples of Christ, are addressed to the holy ones - those who will go to heaven. Romans 1:7; Romans 8:27; Romans 12:13; Romans 15:25-33; Romans 16:1-2; 1 Corinthians 1:2... too many scriptures to list

How do you know that those scriptures are about the 144000?

Paul says the creation - that include us, wait for their revealing. Romans 8:20-22

How do you know that we are part of the creation and not part of the children of God which Paul speaks of?

Do you disagree with anything here?

Not if you can justify what you claim by the scriptures.

So I have the same questions for you, which Frank seems unable to answer.
Who are the sheep in Matthew 25 assisting?
How many are they among the great multitude? Revelation 7:9
How many are sealed as holy ones? Revelation 7:1-4

https://www.religiousforums.com/bible/revelation/7:1-4/

The ones on the right are the sheep and they would have been loving each other and assisting each other.
They inherit the Kingdom according to Matt 25:34.
As for the Rev 7:1-4 and Rev 7:9 it is possible that the 144000 are symbolic of all Christians who have been sealed with the Spirit.
The Great Crowd have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and so are also redeemed and purchased with the blood of Jesus,,,,,,,,,,,,from the earth, ie from amongst those who are on the earth.
But you aren't interested in an opinion, you want the truth of these things from the Governing Body who have set themselves up as the ones who know the answers. It is great to have certainty no doubt, but you cannot show it from the scriptures, just from what the Governing Body says.
Even when it means that the original Gospel has to be changed for the Great Multitude even though Paul says that anyone who does that should be under God's curse--Gal 1:8
You have an idea that Christians should know all the meaning of Revelation and if we don't then we aren't Christians, so you accept ideas about Revelation from people who say they know, but imo that is all they have, what they claim. The scriptures do not affirm or back it up.

Plus this one...
Only the 144,000 are sealed. Revelation 7:1-4 Nowhere does the scriptures say the great multitude are sealed.
Those who go to heaven are sealed with that guarantee - 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5; Romans 8:23; Ephesians 1:13-14.
So why would you assume the great multitude go to heaven?

The question should be "Why would anyone assume the great multitude do not go to heaven?"
Why do you assume that? They are before the throne of God and serve God day and night in His temple.
From the verses below it would seem that all Christians are sealed with the Spirit. Why would you think those verses speak only of the 144000?

2Cor 5:5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2Cor 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Eph 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Romans 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved.

(And we know this is about the bodily resurrection because of the below verses.
Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.)

 

[nPeace]

Yes, a misunderstanding.

You missed the meaning of your words describing what Christian means according to God

You gave 2 definitions of Christians:
1) Definition by so called Christians
2) Definition by God
Of course I used "God's view" (option 2)

And take your definition very serious

See the bold parts I made in your quote:
A Christian is such, only when they are a follower of Christ - his teachings, and example... at least, in God's view

Your 7 points needed for JW come not even close to a Christian who follows Christ His Teachings AND especially example

Meaning at least to be crucified

Hence my use of "100++"

If you still disagree then show and tell me which of the 7 points trump the 1 point "being Christian" = His Example, as in being crucified

Being killed is not an example, although being selfless and standing on the side of truth under threat of death is.

Being thrown off a cliff is not an example, or being thrown to lions, but standing firm to the end, in the face of such action is.

 

[nPeace]

I would like to know how JW's manage to contrive the translation of servant in Matthew 24, to slave?
It seems odd to me that Jesus should consider his followers slaves when they have free will and choice.
Wouldnt that suggest the word slave is not the correct translation given the theme of the gospel?

Thanks for asking.
You can check it yourself. It's not JWs who wrote the Greek.

Strong's Concordance
doulos: a slave
Original Word: δοῦλος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Adjective; Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: doulos
Phonetic Spelling: (doo'-los)
Definition: a slave
Usage: (a) (as adj.) enslaved, (b) (as noun) a (male) slave.

It's the translators of your favorite version of the Bible who used servant.
Servant is not an ancient word. However, slave is.

Also, why does a person spreading the gospel have to be discreet? Are we hiding something others must not know about?

Again, it's not us. JWs only translate the Greek manuscripts. They did not write it.
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
wise
From phren; thoughtful, i.e. Sagacious or discreet (implying a cautious character; while sophos denotes practical skill or acumen; and sunetos indicates rather intelligence or mental acquirement); in a bad sense conceited (also in the comparative) -- wise(-r).

These are by far, only a few examples.
Considering those facts, why do you think the NWT is not the most accurate translation?