I Propose A Challenge

[RestlessSoul]

I had to upgrade this to a winner after looking at the diversity of thumbs up that you got. When you point out how bad someone's reasoning is that both very ardent believers, nonbelievers and those in the middle agree with you that tells us that you nailed it.

Appeal to popular opinion is a logical fallacy.

 

[anotherneil]

Depends

On what?

 

[Esteban X]

Give it a shot and find out

Years ago I was a believer in Jesus Christ (at least I believed i was ). Does that count?

 

[gotti]

His spirit is apparent.

No it's not.

It's literally the opposite of what you just said.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Are you willing to accept a challenge in return?

Depends

On what?

I would guess it would depend on whether or not the one proposing the counter-challenge would be willing to accept @Jimmy's challenge.

It appears to do otherwise would be a bit hypocritical.

 

[Secret Chief]

I speculate with over 50% confidence that he existed.
However, I don't believe that he was divine or communicated
with the divine.

Neither do I. Just ignore anything a bahai says.

 

[Revoltingest]

He never claimed to be divine, just offered a way to get off the treadmill of life (which was part of the religious belief of his culture). He said that speculation about gods was a waste of time (something like that). In short he was 100% human and never claimed anything else.

That matches what I recall from Siddhartha (Hesse).

 

[Eddi]

I believe existence began in 1979.

I thought it was 1980?????

 

[Vinayaka]

That matches what I recall from Siddhartha (Hesse).

You're a Hesse fan?

 

[Revoltingest]

You're a Hesse fan?

Long long ago.

 

[Vinayaka]

Long long ago.

I was going to say that about myself. a few years back I worked with a German immigrant here, and did learn the correct pronunciation of his name. Steppenwolf was my first, then Demian, then Magister Ludi. I think I also read Siddhartha and Journey to the East. One of very few authors I've read.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Those who don’t believe in Christ, I challenge you to pretend that you do for about a week and come back here and tell me if you feel any different. You have to pretend that Christ is alive in your heart though. Whatever that means to you. See ya in a week.

It doesn't work that way (for all). I didn't have to pretend. I used to sincerely believe it for a long time but later realizations made it all vanish... To pretend now would be like pretending to believe in Santa and Tooth fairy again - it's impossible.

 

[CG Didymus]

It doesn't work that way (for all). I didn't have to pretend. I used to sincerely believe it for a long time but later realizations made it all vanish... To pretend now would be like pretending to believe in Santa and Tooth fairy again - it's impossible.

I wonder how many people that call themselves Christians have a few doubts but don't talk about them... They just continue with the facade.

 

[PearlSeeker]

I wonder how many people that call themselves Christians have a few doubts but don't talk about them... They just continue with the facade.

As I observe many don't even care to have any in depth understanding of the Bible and Christian doctrine, what some words and phrases in liturgy even mean...

 

[Alien826]

I find that unfortunate to believe as there are many of us who do get out, and those still in ig and in need of a life line need support to help get them out rather than people saying getting them out can't be done and leave them to drown.

I'm not sure if this is a parallel example, but when I was doing some counseling I had an alcoholic man to deal with. I spoke with a guy at a drug and alcohol shelter (one of the organizers and an alcoholic himself) for advice. He asked, "Is he still drinking". "Yes" I replied. "Then there's nothing you can do for him" he said. Essentially the message was that the help can only start when the addict himself is taking active steps to get out of it.

To repeat, this example may not apply to cult members.

 

[Alien826]

Trust me, one absolutely can “fake it to make it”. Or, to put it another way, a person can “act as if”, until the acting becomes second nature. If we act as if we are unafraid, eventually fear will leave us. If we act as if we love those who hate us, eventually our hearts will be full of love.

That's an interesting observation. In the case of fear, and I have personal experience of that, you get a positive reinforcement when you discover that whatever it was wasn't so scary after all. As far as love goes, I imagine that finding out more about people you hate may reveal that they have valid reasons for being how they are and your hate turns to compassion. Of course the opposite may occur in both cases, but the example is still valid in many cases.

The question then is, would pretending to be Christian provide some such positive feedback? I think a week may be too short a time, but I assume that part of the pretense might involve joining some Christian group (like a church), where you could find a lot of friendship and general good feelings. You could then go on to attribute that to the truth of Christian beliefs and become truly converted. Or I suppose it could really be true (for you).

At least that is my working hypothesis, based on experience. I have yet to meet a believer who reasoned himself out of atheism.

That's probably true but the possibility of a return to religious belief for emotional reasons can't be ignored.

 

[Alien826]

I thought it was 1980?????

That's the 2.0 version, with some bug fixes and improvements.

 

[RabbiO]

I assumed your comment was you joking around. If you are truly serious that you think nothing existed before 1979, I really think you need to discuss this with your doctor.

You’re a little late to the party. He has been advocating for this premise for quite some time across the forum.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Appeal to popular opinion is a logical fallacy.

You misapplied a logical fallacy.

 

[RestlessSoul]

You misapplied a logical fallacy.

Don’t think so mate