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I see no value in atheism

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Please introduce us to the person who became atheist without reference to human reason.
I can think of lots of people who lost their faith due to loss of family, and reached a conclusion that there is no God. Their decision wasn't a rational one, it was because the idea of the God in their mind couldn't exist, and if that particular God doesn't exist then no God must exist. That's not a reasonable position. On top of that, we have people who are atheists but are still religious, such as certain kinds of Buddhists, who tend to follow in the understanding of their religious tenets rather than become atheist because they reasoned their way to that position. Then there are implicit atheists, who are atheists because they are unaware or ignorant of the claim or possibility of a God's existence.

Yes, unless we have proof that the rules of human are binding upon all of reality, we shouldn't go around making claims based on that assumption.
I agree - to the extent that I THINK I understand what you mean by "binding upon all reality". Thus far, I'm assuming that you mean "we can't assume human reasoning - as it currently exists - is capable of giving us answers, or even forming conclusions, on every single potential aspect of the Universe". If that's what you mean, then I agree with you. What makes you think that anyone here, atheist or otherwise, disagrees with that?

I agree with the principles of atheism, I am complaining about the fact that forum atheists rarely apply those principles to their own position.
What principles?

It's not reason to apply the test only to the other fellow's position. That's ideology. As I have attempted to explain 1,000 times to no effect.
What do you mean that "forum atheists" don't "apply the test" to their own position?

No, I didn't say that either. You appear to have a reading disorder.
You've repeatedly asserted that we can't form conclusions about particular claims because we have no reason to assume human reasoning "is binding upon all reality" and it is unreasonable to assume what the state of the Universe truly depends on when we have so little information about it. If you didn't mean that human reasoning is limited, what exactly did you mean?

They are not ad hominem attacks.
Clearly you're the one with the reading disorder then.

I'm attempting to explain why forum atheists typically relentlessly stick to the same very basic clueless positions for years at a time. It's because they can't let go of the notion that they are superior to theists. It's a purely emotional agenda, which is why reason can not touch their opinion.
I have yet to see a single shred of evidence that this is even remotely true. Based on what you have said so far, it is clearly YOU who thinks you are superior. You have repeatedly insulted, patronized and ridiculed people in this thread. Those are not the actions of a reasonable, or humble, person.

I'm sorry if that's too personal for some, but if there is to be any hope of such conversations going anywhere other than round and round in a tiny pointless circle, the reality of the situation sooner or later has to be addressed.
And the reality of the situation won't be reached by you making personal attacks, baseless assumptions and generally behaving in an arrogant, superior manner. If you want reasonable debate, behave reasonably.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Atheism objectively exists, people who have an absence of belief in gods objectively exist. Where does belief enter the picture?
Since you believe that atheism objectively exists, and you count yourself as one of this manifested atheism, then it follows that you believe in atheism...
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
No, it doesn't. "I don't believe X" does not mean "I believe Y".
Haha...you really should have read the thread...there is more to it...Mestemia tried to bluff his way through it like you are trying...and I posted this...

Mestemia says...."I do not believe god does not exist."

Is your mind that thick?...Look, just in your mind, erase the first 'not' in your sentence...it then reads..."I do believe god does not exist." That is spoken like a true atheist... To add the 'not' back, that means you believe god exists...haha silly...

I have not heard from him since...you are as silly and ignorant of correct English language as he is...:rolleyes: ..the egg on your face is beginning to drip...
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
Why don't you do an audit of the thread progress before you are shoot your mouth off and are left with egg all over your face Artie...

His answer in post 1067 was...."I do not believe god does not exist."

To which I pointed out in my post 1083 that ."I do not believe god does not exist." actually means...I believe in god...
No it doesn't. You are the one left with egg all over your face ben d for not understanding that in that post in that context read together with all the other sentences it doesn't mean that. So we seem to have established that you only see one sentence at a time and can't understand what several sentences convey together.
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
Since you believe that atheism objectively exists, and you count yourself as one of this manifested atheism, then it follows that you believe in atheism...
LOL. I don't "believe" atheism objectively exists, it does objectively exist. It is an objective fact that there are people who are not theists.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
LOL. I don't "believe" atheism objectively exists, it does objectively exist. It is an objective fact that there are people who are not theists.
Ok then...you don't believe atheism objectively exists, but it does objectively exist...so that means that despite your understanding that atheism exists objectively, you don't believe it exists objectively... Couldn't be clearer...haha :D
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
That definition fits perfectly with weak and implicit atheism. If an atheist is described as someone who "does not subscribe to the central tenets of theism", then surely this includes all people who qualify for implicit atheism, does it not? Babies don't "subscribe to the central tenets of atheism", for example.
Perhaps you didn't read the word "denies."
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Haha...you really should have read the thread...there is more to it...Mestemia tried to bluff his way through it like you are trying...and I posted this...

I have not heard from him since...you are as silly and ignorant of correct English language as he is...:rolleyes: ..the egg on your face is beginning to drip...
Excuse me?

Let's try an analogy. Let's say we're at a fair, and there is a "guess the number of jelly beans in the jar" stand. After a very brief look at the jar, I confidently turn to you and say "The number of jelly beans in the jar is even". I have demonstrated no reasoning in this conclusion. When asked how I reached it, I simply say "I have magic jelly bean counting powers". Now, answer these questions:

Question 1) Do you believe my claim that the number of jelly beans in the jar is even?

Question 2a) If you answered "no" to Question 1, does that mean you MUST believe the number of jelly bean in the jar is odd?

Question 2b) If you answered "yes" to Question 1, what is wrong with you?
 
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Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Excuse me?

Let's try an analogy. Let's say we're at fair, and there is a "guess the number of jelly beans in the jar" stand. After a very brief look at the jar, I confidently turn to you and say "The number of jelly beans in the jar is even". I have demonstrated no reasoning in this conclusion. When asked how I reached it, I simply say "I have magic jelly bean counting powers". Now, answer these questions:

Question 1) Do you believe my claim that the number of jelly beans in the jar is even?

Question 2a) If you answered "no" to Question 1, does that mean you MUST believe the number of jelly bean in the jar is odd?

Question 2b) If you answered "no" to Question 1, what is wrong with you?
Are you insane?

What is your point?
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
So you see, it is still you one step behind...how old are you anyway...high school?
Oh what a pathetic attempt at making it look like others don't know what they're talking about to cover up that you are the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. But your tactic worked. We didn't understand that was what you were doing.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Lol, yes deny can mean to withhold. But how do you withhold that god exists.
"Theism" isn't "God exists", theism is "the belief that God exists". So, to withhold theism means "to withhold belief in God".

Certainly one can deny that god exists, but this usually does not mean to withhold. Are you trying to weasel?
My weaseling days are way behind me, ever since I got that career-ending injury from Worsel McWeasel in '98, and I ain't never going back without a dramatic weaseling montage.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Oh what a pathetic attempt at making it look like others don't know what they're talking about to cover up that you are the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. But your tactic worked. We didn't understand that was what you were doing.
I will try and be patient...but it requires an effort on your part to be forthright and honest with me....ask me what you like, and I will provide my honest understanding....
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
No. Are you capable of reasonable, adult discussion?

If you wish to know my point, answer the questions. Analogies that ask questions tend to work better when they are answered.
Then act accordingly....as an adult that is..

Yes...the operative word is 'adult'...kiddies Q and A is silly....
 
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