I Support The Truckers

[Wildswanderer]

Being outside is the simpler part.

I'm sure some businesses went under due to closures but there's also been people saying 'were going out of business because people are lazy' when they are, in fact, just not paying a livable wage. My old place closed during covid, but they were already down to a quarter staff and they weren't willing to pay the market average.

People who can't pay their employees a livable wage can't afford the cost of business.

At any rate, as has been said, employees and patrons getting sick wouldn't have been remarkably good for business either.

They got sick anyway. It was inevitable.
You don't seem to understand that businesses can't survive without customers and that's why we so many went under. You can't pay your employees if you have almost nothing coming in.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

They got sick anyway. It was inevitable.
You don't seem to understand that businesses can't survive without customers and that's why we so many went under. You can't pay your employees if you have almost nothing coming in.

I didn't. Still have not had covid yet and I work hands on with people. *knocks on wood.*
If there had not been closures I probably would have gotten sick way worse, because I was unvaccinated until Feb last year, and the vast majority of deaths and long covid hospitalizations are unvaccinated. And would have infected my high risk husband (lung scarring from pneumonia, and asthma.) A bad infection would have also been worse because the hospitals weren't prepared.

You get how not doing anything would have led to way, way more business closures right?

Anyway I had no customers for months but didn't go out of business because I used the readily accessible assistance programs.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I didn't. Still have not had covid yet and I work hands on with people. *knocks on wood.*
If there had not been closures I probably would have gotten sick way worse, because I was unvaccinated until Feb last year, and the vast majority of deaths and long covid hospitalizations are unvaccinated. And would have infected my high risk husband (lung scarring from pneumonia, and asthma.) A bad infection would have also been worse because the hospitals weren't prepared.

You get how not doing anything would have led to way, way more business closures right?

Anyway I had no customers for months but didn't go out of business because I used the readily accessible assistance programs.

I continued to have customers all along because I do mail order. I didn't really even need the stimulus checks because God has always blessed us with what we need. Not to excess and sometimes I wonder how we have not gone bankrupt but it has always worked out. I am still not jabbed. My wife was, twice and still contacted covid at work. If I have had it I didn't ever have symptoms. I should say I often feel like I have a cold, so I don't know if I would even realize I had covid. Several people in my family have had it and none of them work close contact-type jobs. One is a farmer, one a housewife and so on.
I really think the only thing that would have changed without shutdowns and restrictions is that it would have cycled through more quickly. You would have more cases initially but the same amount in the long term.

 

[Revoltingest]

How to support truckers.....
I'm driving at nite in the rain in the right lane.
Visibility is poor in such conditions.
A truck passes me on the left.
As it gets far enuf ahead to merge back into my lane,
I flash my headlights to signal to them that they have
good clearance ahead.
After merging they thank me by flashing their lights.
This is protocol.

I'm approaching a cloverleaf, & see a truck on the
entrance ramp. Even though I have right-of-way,
I adjust my speed to give them a gap for safe &
easy entry to the highway.

Trucks can't brake or accelerate as quickly as cars.
And the potential for death is greater when they get
into accidents. So be considerate.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I continued to have customers all along because I do mail order. I didn't really even need the stimulus checks because God has always blessed us with what we need. Not to excess and sometimes I wonder how we have not gone bankrupt but it has always worked out. I am still not jabbed. My wife was, twice and still contacted covid at work. If I have had it I didn't ever have symptoms. I should say I often feel like I have a cold, so I don't know if I would even realize I had covid. Several people in my family have had it and none of them work close contact-type jobs. One is a farmer, one a housewife and so on.
I really think the only thing that would have changed without shutdowns and restrictions is that it would have cycled through more quickly. You would have more cases initially but the same amount in the long term.

More cases initially would have put even more strain on fracturing hospital infrastructure. As it is even people without covid were dying because there wasn't room in icu. Also even though you and others had mild cases, the vast majority of hospitalizations were unvaccinated so allowing time for vaccination reduced total death, as well as long term injury from long covid.

 

[Wildswanderer]

More cases initially would have put even more strain on fracturing hospital infrastructure. As it is even people without covid were dying because there wasn't room in icu. Also even though you and others had mild cases, the vast majority of hospitalizations were unvaccinated so allowing time for vaccination reduced total death, as well as long term injury from long covid.

As far as I know I never had it at all. But it's impossible to say.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I haven't read the entire thread, so some or all of this has likely been said, but restricting where the unvaccinated may go is not an example of tyranny. It's merely others exercising their rights. No rights are being violated. The truckers have the right to refuse vaccination, and that right has been honored. Nobody is being forcibly vaccinated except possibly some young children with their parents' consent. They also have a right to not be discriminated against for race, sexual orientation, religion, etc.., but no rights when it comes to being excluded from jobs, restaurants, airlines, and venues where the unvaccinated are lawfully prohibited.

And if we're talking strictly about government, the mandates come from democratically elected officials working in their official capacity to protect society, so no tyranny there, either.

There's a difference between rights and freedoms. The freedoms conferred by rights are protected. Other freedoms, like having a driving license, are privileges that can be rescinded. They are conditional, and the unvaccinated don't meet the conditions.

This ought to be considered in the cost-benefit analysis regarding getting vaccinated. When one refuses a vaccine, there is the significantly increased risk of going to an ICU and onto a ventilator and possibly dying needlessly, of getting long Covid, and loss of access to many former privileges reserved for the vaccinated. What's the cost? For almost everybody that gets the shot, there is at most a little injection site discomfort. I know of two people that had extreme reactions that laid them out for a week or more.

So, everybody's right are being respected, both those of the unvaccinated and those of the people free to exclude them, which apparently is being called tyranny by some.

**********

Minutes after posting this, I found the following in my inbox, which I thought relevant to this discussion:

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The information here comes from a research article on the topic (open-access PDF available here).

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• Trade-offs are an inherent part of choosing, which occur when people must decide whether and how much to satisfy one consideration at the expense of another; for example, this can involve deciding how much you're willing to pay to get a better version of some product.
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[9-10ths_Penguin]

They got sick anyway. It was inevitable.
You don't seem to understand that businesses can't survive without customers and that's why we so many went under. You can't pay your employees if you have almost nothing coming in.

COVID-19: Financial support for people, businesses and organizations - Canada.ca

 

[Yerda]

I believe the way the Canadian government is treating them is horrible, and now threatening to take away their pets. Seriously? Freezing bank accounts and taking away people's animals is something the CCP would do, not liberal Western democracies.

I don't support the trucker's cause. Responding to a public health issues with public health solutions isn't tyranny. The response to what was a peaceful demonstrations has been mental though and the media covergae I've seen has been hysterical at times.

 

[Wandering Monk]

I support the trucker protesters. They're protesting against a despotic government that wants to impose vaccine mandates and take away their freedoms for not complying with a forced medical procedure. Most of what has been reported about them is false and they have been demonised by the media. I see RF doesn't broadly support them either. Maybe folks are afraid to say.

But I support them. It seems, according to the media I follow, many others support them too. Many of them are vaccinated, but for me this isn't about vaccination; this is about standing up to forced medical tyranny. They are the good guys imo and are doing Canada a favour. Some in the US have joined them.

I believe the way the Canadian government is treating them is horrible, and now threatening to take away their pets. Seriously? Freezing bank accounts and taking away people's animals is something the CCP would do, not liberal Western democracies.

These folks aren't Nazis, they're not Confederates; they're protesting for their freedoms back. Freedoms we had until 2020 that were completely normal to everyone.

Oh good. Did you also support the George Floyd protestors who shut down freeways?

 

[F1fan]

Where did I say " screw they neighbor?"
The mandates are hurting way more neighbors than they ever helped.
The vaccine is maybe 30 percent effective and most people are going to get covid regardless. It's just reality. Time to get back to normal.

I asked you:

Explain what kind of government you want, and be sure to explain why you are fine with "screw thy neighbor" as a moral policy, and as a supposed Christian.​

yet you didn't offer any explanation of what kind of government you want. Do you not have an idea, or what? Back to normal means what? We still have a deadly virus in our midst, there is no "normal" without being careful not to be careless and face spreading disease and death to more innocent people.

What "normal" do you want? Is it normal to pretend there is no viral threat to our society and economical stability? Is it normal to accept and ignore more deaths among our society? You tell me what you are willing to live with as a toll on lives, society, and our economy.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I asked you:

Explain what kind of government you want, and be sure to explain why you are fine with "screw thy neighbor" as a moral policy, and as a supposed Christian.​

yet you didn't offer any explanation of what kind of government you want. Do you not have an idea, or what? Back to normal means what? We still have a deadly virus in our midst, there is no "normal" without being careful not to be careless and face spreading disease and death to more innocent people.

What "normal" do you want? Is it normal to pretend there is no viral threat to our society and economical stability? Is it normal to accept and ignore more deaths among our society? You tell me what you are willing to live with as a toll on lives, society, and our economy.

Normal is just that. No mandates. Recommendations, sure, but not forcing anyone to comply to any rules over a virus that we have no control over as has been demonstrated over and over.
If you are worried, stay away from people.

 

[Revoltingest]

...a virus that we have no control over as has been demonstrated over and over.

That's simply wrong. We have control, but it's limited.
We can limit risk of exposure by masking & distancing.
We can limit morbidity by vaccination.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Normal is just that. No mandates. Recommendations, sure, but not forcing anyone to comply to any rules over a virus that we have no control over as has been demonstrated over and over.
If you are worried, stay away from people.

So... that "virus that we have no control over": you consider that part of "normal"?

 

[Wildswanderer]

That's simply wrong. We have control, but it's limited.
We can limit risk of exposure by masking & distancing.
We can limit morbidity by vaccination.

Those are all things you can choose to do if you like.

 

[Wildswanderer]

So... that "virus that we have no control over": you consider that part of "normal"?

Of course. We have lots of virus' we are exposed to yearly.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Of course. We have lots of virus' we are exposed to yearly.

Do you understand what the term "excess deaths" means?

Spoiler: Answer

It's deaths above the normal level

 

[Wildswanderer]

Do you understand what the term "excess deaths" means?

Spoiler: Answer

It's deaths above the normal level

Modeling done by researchers at Washington University, suggests that omicron may kill between 97 and 99 percent fewer people than the delta variant
The fatality rate of omicron could be as low as 0.0025 percent, or one in 40,000.


That's lower than the rate of fatality for the flu.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Hardcore aloneness generally isn't good for people. It can be very psychologically destructive. The silence is unnerving for most people because we are social animals.

Well no, I think because we are primates, and I can't think of a primate that likes to go about alone. Or more accurately, any given primate seems like it wouldn't know how to live, were it alone. Because it seems like any given behavior that any primate has, is a behavior that functions in the context of there being 'others.' I am just intuiting this, by looking at the sorts of things they do

On the other hand, primate/human hierarchy can obviously leverage a very great power over the lives of any given included individual, especially those in the base class. It can convince them to make conclusions on how to live, which a more objective individual might find unpalatable

For example, in the codices on the Aztecs, there are these painted images of people performing auto-mutilation of some kind, with people driving sharp sticks through various parts of their bodies.. Grim, but for them, it was normal, and 'functional.'

More 'modern' examples may not include the above example exactly, but are foundational carryovers of some kind, from history. For example, there is the socio-behaviaral pulse running through the mind or soul, of each individual in a large army, that besieges another country. Each of those individuals obviously fails to be a hermit, but they might do things together, that are not in the best interest of 'people,' as a concept

So I tend to wonder if your statement should be qualified rather heavily. A person involved in a group project, is probably 'psychologically healthier,' as an individual, but that certain sense of internal production may not correlate at all with the aims of the project

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So I tend to wonder if your statement should be qualified rather heavily.

No. It's basic psychology that extended periods of isolation are not good for us. It's even been observed to not be good in other primates.
And, of course not everyone has the same needs for socialization and some do live isolated lives. But if you want qualify my statement over a handful of rare examples we need to "heavily qualify" all statements, including "humans feel pain" because not all humans do as some people are immune to pain.